MP3 download:

2011-09-23 Dr. James interview with Nick Kollerstrom and Torstein Viddal; Tony Farrell; London 7/7 and Oslo bombing (The Real Deal, Download here, 42.8 MB, 2 hrs).

 

Transcript

 

Dr. Fetzer: [33:28] . . . Now we are going to turn our attention to the Norway shooting involving Anders Breivik which looks very, very peculiar from many, many points of view. Torstein, please give us some background on how you became interested in this case.
Torstein Viddal: Well for me it started when I was sitting right here in my apartment, and I thought the lightning struck because my window flew open and sounded exactly like lightning. And then I was told on Google plus that it was some kind of explosion downtown.
Dr. Fetzer: So you are telling me you were actually, you have a residence in Oslo and that the blast of the explosion blew windows out of your apartment, which would certainly have been a dramatic way to draw your attention to something taking place in the city.
Viddal: Yes. My living room window just blew up, literally from the explosion. It is just two minutes to walk down to the blast site, yes.
Dr. Fetzer: So how did you get involved in conducting the research, granted that this event obviously captured your attention. Have you done research on cases before as your background to something that would lead you to pursue this?
Viddal: Yes, you know when 7-7 happened in London I had finished a blogpost on that just an hour after it happened and I was very, very convinced it was some kind of deep event or black operation. And also since 2008 I have been a founding member of the 9/11 Truth Norway.
Dr. Fetzer: Well wonderful. Wonderful, wonderful. How has 9/11 Truth captured the attention of Norwegians? Are they strongly supportive? Is there widespread skepticism?
Viddal: I am sorry, I don't hear you very well with crackling sound.
Dr. Fetzer: Is there widespread skepticism of the official account of 9/11 in Norway?
Viddal: Yes, I would say so, but from people I meet around, a lot of people seem very skeptical. But here, as in UK and America, the mainstream media is very antagonistic and very anti-curiosity.
Dr. Fetzer: Even in Norway you are telling me the newspapers suppress information about 9/11?
Viddal: Absolutely. They ridicule and they call you names and they do everything.
Dr. Fetzer: And how about 7-7? Is their attitude similar regarding what we know about the subway bombings?
Viddal: There has been very little in the Norwegian media about 7-7. I think it is too close to home, I guess. I don't know.
Nick Kollerstrom: Yes, yes. OK, if I can come in Jim?
Dr. Fetzer: Please.
Kollerstrom: To quote what Torstein wrote, we still do not know what really happened, only that there is less and less reason to rely on what the police management have said. I think that is crucial. I think the story that we are looking at here is called LIHOP in terms of what the 9/11 investigators call Let It Happen On Purpose.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes.
Kollerstrom: The thesis is that the police somehow let and encouraged this Breivik character to do what he did and it only worked because of police complicity. In addition, I am very struck by the way Torstein describes the blast as like lightening. I think that various accounts of this blast, terrific blast in the middle of town, government buildings, doesn't sound like a car bomb with amonium nitrate in it. And I think there is a big question mark over whatever went bang, was this really a fertilizer bomb in a car as we are being told?
Dr. Fetzer: Excellent, excellent points, Nick. Torstein, tell us about the extent of the damage in downtown Norway.
Viddal: Well, yes. I took my camera, very cheap camera and just walked around in the streets just after I heard it was an explosion and you can say that the whole downtown area, about twnety blocks or something, all the windows are blown out. The shop windows and everything. It was really astonishing, the reach of this.
Dr. Fetzer: How much damage was done to the street to automobiles, to buildings, and all that, apart from windows being blown out? Were there other serious signs of more serious damage?
Viddal: At Einar Gerhardsen square, Gerhardsen is the very famous Labor Party Prime Minister, Gerhardsen square where the bomb blew, it was just damage to the other buildings, and one or two cars, so they were blown away.
Dr. Fetzer: Would you interpret this as more symbolic, the bombing more symbolic than intended to do real serious damage, or what is your assessment?
Viddal: There is a complicating issue that the car with the bomb was placed above a government tunnel for government employees. So the bomb blasted two floors down into these tunnels. And if it was that, or it was placed somewhere else, near the government building, maybe the whole government structure would come down because it took a lot of power away from the bomb blast.
Kollerstrom: Right, are we convinced that there really was this white volkswagen van there that blew up, or is it the case that all the evidence for this van comes from, as it were, official police accounts or offical security agent testimony. We haven't been show any film or CCTV of this car have we?
Viddal: We have actually been shown in the last three recent days lots of still images from CCTV of the car itself right next to it, and also Breivik a hundred meters down the road.
Kollerstrom: Oh right. So this, would you say this totally settles that Breivik really, really was there on that morning?
Viddal: Yes, the bomber was there obviously because you can see him in a police uniform, and with a gun in his hand, but we don't know who is inside it because [unintelligible] you know?
Kollerstrom: Right, right.
Viddal: It seems pretty certain that some bomber was there, and of course you couldn't see his face.
Kollerstrom: No. My impression is that the bomb blast mainly affected the tops of the buildings. The big government buildings like the one with the helicopter pad on, were they burning at the top, most damage at the top? I wonder if this looks quite like a car bomb.
Viddal: It was burning on the fourth floor. In one of those amateur videos you can see on YouTube you can see in you know the same footage, the same continuous footage you can see it first not burning, and then it sweeps to the other side of the street and then back again and is burning. There is some kind of secondary effect that makes it start to burn. I don't think it is another bomber.
Kollerstrom: Right, right. OK, if we could turn to what happens when this car was parked. I assume around 3:00 in the afternoon, this fellow, there is a witness sees this chap get out of this, walking along, presumably after he got out of his car, and this witness, chap named Andreas Olsen sees a figure in black, wearing black with a police helmet and a visor and a gun and a police badge walking along the road. And he wonders what he is doing, and this chap walks over the river and then gets into a grey car and drives off.
Viddal: Excuse me. That is not exactly precise. The eyewitness walks over the river. The bomber did not have to because his car was parked in [unintelligible].
Kollerstrom: OK, right.
Dr. Fetzer: This is before he heads off for the island to shoot all the people at the political camp. Yes.
Kollerstrom: So we are trying to ascertain do we have evidence that this is really Breivik or is it just somebody wearing something exposed to look like a terrorist wearing black who cannot be recognized. This is the point. No one can recognize him. And if it was really Breivik planning this, why would he carry a gun? I think that is extremely unlikely anyone would plan this event in great detail and get out of this white volkswagen stuffed with explosives wearing a black police uniform and carrying a gun and walking across to another car. I would have thought that anyone doing that should be arrested.
Viddal: He wasn't arrested. Also you could say that the bomb in downtown Oslo, the way it happened, worked as a decoy, you say?
Kollerstrom: Decoy, yes.
Viddal: You have to make all the police forces be safe with that case. And then I think maybe his prime target would have to be Utoya?
Kollerstrom: Yes, OK, but this figure in black you see is walking along, before the bomb goes off, isn't it?
Viddal: Yes.
Kollerstrom: Let's also bring in here what you have brought out to me Torstein that the territorial rehearsal was going on. For several days before this the police had been involved in various territorial rehearsals and there was only one where we were told the details, and that was that very afternoon. They finished at 3:00 in the afternoon. And that was a terror drill involving an assassin or a terrorist attack who was trying to shoot down various people and then try to shoot the police and the police had to get him. So that was the terror drill they were involved in. In other words, totally identical to what was planned to happen at 3:00 in that afternoon. And we have an astonishing statement from the newspaper that the same officers involved in the terror drill were the ones who then drove off to the island of Utoya following Breivik.
Viddal: I couldn't hear you. It was not all totally clear, but prior to that there was a five day terror drill, involving assassinations or multiple shootings.
Kollerstrom: Yes.
Viddal: An it ended up at 1500 hours on Friday.
Kollerstrom: Yes.
Viddal: Which makes you wonder, I mean if you have terror drills on 9/11 in America, and the terror drills on the same day in London on 7/7 --
Kollerstrom: Right.
Viddal: 22-7 in Oslo makes it pretty amazing that you can have that kind of coincidence, you know?
Kollerstrom: Yes, and also the fact you can have a guy walking in black, carrying a gun, I mean surely this is something straight out of a terror drill. This guy he might have been the person, the actor, who is in the terror drill pretending to be the assassin.
Viddal: I can't hear you.
Dr. Fetzer: And doesn't it appear that if there is somebody feigning to be an assassin, this has to involve collusion before two or more individuals and therefore appears to be a conspiracy of one sort or another.
Kollerstrom: Yes, I am wondering if the figure seen by Andreas Olsen walking along, the lone gunman in police uniform with a helmet and visor, he could have been just coming out from that terror drill rehearsal. And that could be the reason why the police did not take notice of him. That he was part of the drill they had been in.
Viddal: Yes, you have also the government scare, or the government HQ complex. And he watching this CCTV footage, about this guy going out of this van, with his gun and his uniform with his helmet. And he, for ten minutes nobody tried to arrest Breivik. It seems so amazing.
Kollerstrom: It is.
Viddal: I think it was August 11th this chief of security was at NRK News, and he then says something truly amazing. He says a parked car next to the main government building is not a potential terror threat.
Kollerstrom: Ha!
Viddal: Imagine that!
Dr. Fetzer: How can it not be when it is a car? They are just claiming car bombs take place all the time. That it not be a potential terror threat. That is rather bizarre.
Kollerstrom: Yes, I mean in this country, if you parked a car just outside Downing Street in Whitehall and walked away, especially if you are wearing black, with a black visor and a gun, I mean you wouldn't get two minutes down the street. You just wouldn't. It is just totally unthinkable. I appreciate that Norway is not quite as --
Dr. Fetzer: This looks like a deliberate deception without much doubt, Torstein would you agree with that?
Viddal: Yes, it looks very strange. But the stranger thing is that for two months now, this is the two month anniversary for this terror event. Two months there has been news stories coming out, just leaks from what has happened, I mean it gets worse and worse every day. You know that they didn't close down the airports after the bombing in downtown Oslo?
Kollerstrom: Right
Viddal: They didn't close the subway.
Kollerstrom: Right.
Dr. Fetzer: They didn't act like it was a bona fide terrorist attack in other words.
Kollerstrom: No.
Viddal: They didn't close the main roads out of Oslo in order to catch the [suspected] police [impersonator].
Kollerstrom: Right.
Viddal: And they didn't put two or three helicopters up in the air.
Kollerstrom: Right. So they did abolutely nothing. They did nothing.
Viddal: No, nothing. In fact, the police helicopter was put in the air at 21:06 and it was on Utoya at 21:16.
Kollerstrom: That is two hours -- two hours -- after the news helicopter got there.
Viddal: That was also two hours after he got arrested. So you see --
Kollerstrom: Right, right.
Viddal: That took almost two months to come out. And the terror drill, the news about the terror drill? Came out five weeks after the terror event.
Kollerstrom: Yes, yes.
Viddal: And no one has ever mentioned that terror drill story again after 26 August.
Kollerstrom: I thought this ambitious newspaper called Aften Posten, right?
Viddal: Yes.
Kollerstrom: Aften Posten. I thought that indicated to its readers that it might have a bit more jen on this remarkable disclosure that you will be coming out with. But it hasn't come out with anything more.
Viddal: I think they may have been silenced or something, but because we know nothing more about it. The amazing thing is also that the week before, the Friday before on August 19th, our Minister of Justice who is head of the police in Norway, he said that they are going to rehearse this kind of terror but then 22-7 came before they could have the rehearsal, and they were planning on having that kind of rehearsal in November 2011. So he actually says one week before it is revealed we had another rehearsal that, Oh, well we ran out of time and we coudn't have a rehearsal for this type of thing before November. So I really didn't know, or knew, or they tried to lie.
Kollerstrom: Yes, yes. OK. Now shall we perhaps move on to the question a lot of people jumped on. This obvious Zionist angle to this story that Breivik appears from his declaration to be passionately pro-Zionist, and this event happens on the very anniversary 22-7 of the [King] David Hotel in Israel being blown up. Was it sixty years ago? By Zionists.
Dr. Fetzer: Let me ask first some questions, Torstein. I notice you have a series of articles about this on 911Truth.no/authors/TViddal where the first begins "Oslo Zionist Terror Not a False Flag Op" on July 28th, but it goes through several different reports. You have one where "9/11, London and Madrid: designed to increase Islamophobia" on June 19th, and then you have February "From 9/11 to 2/11," February 11th I have them in reverse order. So have you progressed in your thinking then from believing that it was a false flag op to believing it was not?
Viddal: Yes, in the beginning in the first few weeks I saw no hard evidence that it could have been a false flag operation. But then, you know, after you hear that the police have done every wrong thing you have ever dreamt of, and you know there have been total amateurs for the whole day, it seems more and more like something you have seen before.
Sollerstrom: Yes, Yes right.
Viddal: There is no very hard evidence, but it is beginning to be too unbelievable that they can make all these mistakes.
Dr. Fetzer: Torstein does this mean you are now again adjusting your beliefs in relation to new evidence that it probably was a false flag op that was orchestrated involving complete police complicity?
Viddal: I think that one should always change ones view after new evidence comes up. I am not totally decided on what has happened here, but it seems that to do the thing you saw on 22-7 it would be much easier if you controlled two or three important people inside the police.
Kollerstrom: Yes, right.
Dr. Fetzer: It seems to me Torstein that you may have got it just right with your June 19th article where 9/11, London and Madrid were designed to increase Islamophobia. That would make a great deal of sense. And then you would put in Norway too that the whole idea, except is there any explicit link to Islam in Norway?
Viddal: There was some terror experts, on Norwegian TV who started talking about Al Qeda half an hour or an hour after the blast in the center.
Dr. Fetzer: Really.
Sollerstrom: Yes.
Dr. Fetzer: But has our suspect Anders been identified with any -- well -- if it is a false flag op --
Viddal: Can I come in Jim?
Dr. Fetzer: Please do Nick.
Kollerstrom: What Breivik has said very clearly in his declaration, he says, "So let us fight together with Israel, with our Zionist brothers" so he is very much talking about how beneficial Israeli politics are and how dangerous the Muslim flood, the alleged flood of Muslim immigrants coming into Europe is. So the manifest purpose of what he does is to try and wake people up to make them do something about the flood of Islamic immigrants. That is what the event appears to be.
Dr. Fetzer: The flood of Islamic immigrants into Norway.
Kollerstrom: Yes. And so the question is whether there is another purpose, other than this apparent purpose, which concerns the way the Labor Youth activists on the island were very anti-Israel. They were chanting "Boycott Israel" and "set up sanctions against Israel." So the labor movement in Norway was calling for this. And the question is if this is some kind of punishment to Norway for them doing that.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes, yes. Let me correct Torstein and suppose your July 28th article then you would revise by saying remove where you say "Not" where you say "Oslo Zionist Terrorist not a false flag." That it involves collusion with the police which appears rather evident from everything you have been describing. It seems likely it was a false flag op cleverly concealed to be this bizarre individual acting alone but where actually he had lots of cooperation and assistance from the police including the delayed response to the reports of the shooting on the island which allowed him to kill many more young men and women.
Viddal: Yes, I think the delayed response is the biggest, most important issue, and I wouldn't have written it today that it was not a false flag operation.
Kollerstrom: Could we perhaps continue just going through the sequence. Come back to what Torstein has alluded to as the delay. It would help if we couldn go through the sequence with Torstein, if that is OK.
Dr. Fetzer: Nick, that is fine, but we have to take a break, so we will begin that. That is a perfect place for us to take a break and continue our conversation with Torstein Vidal and Nick Kollerstrom. We are discussing the bizarre attacks in Norway, including the bombing in Oslo and the shooting of many young men and women at the progressive or liberal political camp. We'll be right back. [57:15 start of break. End at: 1:03:50]
Dr. Fetzer: This is Jim Fetzer, your host on the Real Deal, continuing my conversation with Torstein Viddal from Norway, Oslo, and Nick Kollerstrom from London, the UK. We are discussing the attacks in Norway. Nick, you were going to give us your sketch about the timeline for us to discuss with Torstein.
Kollerstrom: OK, so we come to the most staggering part of this story. That for one and a half hours, the killer is free on this island to shoot little kids without any police obstruction. 5:00 he arrives on the island, at two minutes past 5:00 frantic telephone calls from kids go out to the parents and to the police. The police start to be besieged by parents phoning up saying "My kids are being shot at, will you please do something." The message gets relayed to the Oslo police. Now their alibi here, the police alibi for doing absolutely nothing for an hour and a half is that it was holiday time, July, and the few people they have got were already tied up with the Oslo explosion. You have got to decide if you want to believe that. The police tried to put out the story that only at 5:27 did they receive the first notification of the massacre on the island. If you want to believe that. It is not until there keep being these desperate messages and then it is not until 6:25 that the police arrive on the island and Breivik is even apparently making telephone calls asking if he can surrender. In other words suggesting his bewilderment that such a long time goes by without the police arriving. And I suggest those phone calls are to try and enable him to stay alive so that he can tell the police he wants to surrender.
Dr. Fetzer: But Nick, isn't that suspicious all by itself as though there were a preestablished plan? He is going to surrender rather than be shot by the police? I mean this --
Kollerstrom: I think so, yes.
Dr. Fetzer: I mean, how bizarre that he should be calling the police to tell them here he is out shooting these kids and he wants to surrender. They ought to have come and shot him down like a dog.
Kollerstrom: Yes. Anyway at 6:34 Breivik, not having run out of bullets, he surrenders as the police call him by name. OK. So the police delay an incredibly long time and then they call him by name. And it is well known what the police have been doing in this time that they are fuffing around by the side of the lake, trying to pretend they can't find a boat to go out to this island. And then they finally get a red rubber dingy with a leak in it, and they put all their equipment in it and they are fuffing around, going around in a circle, while the kids are being shot, and there are videos you can watch of this, it is quite incredible.
Dr. Fetzer: Surely there is a rapid response team, and they ought to have arrived by helicopter to expedite the timeline. This is completely ridiculous, Nick. What you are describing is an atrocity by itself.
Kollerstrom: Well let's get Torstein's view on this, because when the police finally come on to the island, there is a helicopter hovering overhead, but it is just a TV news helicopter. Torstein told us it is not for two hours later any police helicopter managed to get there. This is incredibly reminiscent of 9/11 when all the planes were held down on the ground. All these rapid response planes all around the Pentagon and we had explanations about why they couldn't take off until after the event was all over. That is what this reminds me of.
Dr. Fetzer: Torstein are you just as shocked as I am by this sequence of events?
Viddal: Yes.
Dr. Fetzer: Please.
Viddal: I am very, very shocked, and I have been crying for almost four weeks. Just almost stopped crying now, you know. But the thing is it sounds like a stand down thing. This news helicopter from NRK news, it was the only helicopter at that time and I think it was three afterwards that the police helicopter came there at quarter past nine in the evening. It is incredible. And also the ambulance helicopters there, they had two or three ambulance helicopters over at Utoya island, and also the kids that were able to swim across to the mainland, they were not rescued by ambulances. You had maybe ten or fifteen ambulances standing one kilometer away not daring to go down to help them because it was not a safe zone for them. You had tourists, campers, actually giving first aid to those who were lucky enough to swim ashore. The ambulances were just standing there not doing anything.
Dr. Fetzer: This is quite bizarre. Another aspect that is so extremely troubling concerns the phone call that was made to the island to inform these young people that there had been an explosion in Oslo, but that a policeman was coming to provide them protection. Torstein, would you like to remark about that?
Viddal: Yes, I don't think that is so sinister as you put it because I think that is only a guard by the ferry who is just telling them about the policeman coming over.
Dr. Fetzer: Oh, so we know who made that phone call.
Viddal: Yes, he was a police guard or something.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes, yes. And was he telling them that Breivik had already shown up in his police uniform so that the guard was calling to reassure them before he came over?
Viddal: I am not sure. I think the guard actually believed the Oslo policeman, I don't know.
Dr. Fetzer: Nick, would you care to comment on this? I find this quite troubling too.
Kollerstrom: Well Torstein is a direct expert on this subject, Jim. I just say that we need an open inquiry on this. And just one that is open, where citizens could attend and hear the experience of the people before it all gets forgotten and swept under the carpet as with the London bombings.
Dr. Fetzer: How could Brevik --
Viddal: You said that they were calling, the police were calling Breivik's name. They weren't actually calling his name, they were calling out for him. It was some kind of loss in translation thing from Norwegian news to English.
Dr. Fetzer: Tell us more about that, Torstein. What do you mean calling out for him?
Viddal: They were calling for him to lay down his weapon. They were not using his name. It has been mis-translated.
Dr. Fetzer: Something like they were calling out to him. To Breivik, not knowing his name, to lay down his weapons. And it gets mistranslated as they are calling Breivik to lay down his [unintelligible] as though it were by his name Breivik.
Viddal: Exactly.
Kollerstrom: All right. OK. Now if I may move on a bit. Some days later Jim the police then turn up at Breivik's farm, because he owned a farm or bought a farm to be able to get all this stuff, fertilizer bomb, and everything, and they performed a controlled explosion. Which means I think that they got rid of the remaining evidence of whatever explosives were in his farm. Now this is something rather similar with the London bombings where we get controlled explosions at very strategic points, which the police do in order to try and attract media attention and try to show people that they are doing something. I think this is again very suspicious, and it means that they have demolished the evidence for whatever Breivik was doing. I still think it is rather questionable whether what blew up in Oslo was an amonium nitrate bomb, and I don't see how we can ever verify this now that the police have destroyed the evidence by what they did at his farm.
Dr. Fetzer: So what you are saying is whatever evidence may have been present at Breiviks farm was destroyed deliberately by the police in order to curtail any research about it and determine whether there was any connection between say, ingredients which might have been present at his farm and the actual explosion in Oslo.
Kollerstrom: Well let us ask Torstein if he can confirm that.
Viddal: Yes, I don't know. I saw the video clips of the police blowing it up at this farm and I am not sure what to make of that, you know.
Kollerstrom: Right, well in a lot of these false flag terror events one is completely uncertain about the explosive, it never gets verified. And it keeps changing.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes, I think that you and I want to use what Torstein has to tell us from his location there in Oslo about this, and figure what kind of account makes the most sense, Nick. In other words, Torstein does not bear the full burdon of providing the analysis of everything going on here, in fact there are many ways in which you and I are actually better positioned to put those pieces together when Torstein provides us with some of the key pieces.
Kollerstrom: Well, yes. Let us ask Torstein the big question. First, do you think there is any evidence for Israeli/Mossad involvement in this, or is that quite unfair?
Viddal: That is, you know, it is very hard to say, but you know his inspiration for these acts is obviously not coming from this country. It is maybe coming from fjordman who is also a Norwegian, but even his writings are not motivated by Norwegian issues. It is obviously an Anglo-American-Israeli anti-Muslim objective in this case.
Kollerstrom: Is it? Is it? In his whole manifesto, he proclaims himself some loyal Norwegian who wants to keep the racial purity of Norway and protect it from being flooded by, you know --.
Vidall: You can also see in his manifesto that he believes in the official conspiracy theory about 9/11 and the London bombs.
Kollerstrom: OK, yes.
Vidall: And he believes in the Eurabia conspiracy theory about some secret deal between socialists and Arabs to take over Europe. So most of these conspiracy theories are written by I would say American Zionists or Israeli Zionists.
Dr. Fetzer: Well there is a very significant paragraph in your piece titled "Oslo's Zionist Terror Not a False Flag Op" in which you now would qualify pehaps by removing the word "not" for those who go to 9/11Truth.no for Norway/Author/TViddal in which you observe that this was taking place on the 65th anniversary of the Zionist terrorist group Irgun devastating attack against the British administration and forces headquarters at Jerusalem's King David Hotel. [1:15:05]
Viddal: The amazing thing is that no mainstream media in Norway for two months has made the connection to the 22 July 1946. And I ask myself why is that such a strange thing to write about. I mean if this happened on September 11, 2011, I would say that the first day that they would write about a similar attack on that date.
Dr. Fetzer: Of course, if only to say what an astounding coincidence.
Viddal: Yes, yes.
Dr. Fetzer: And you write further on that there is one massive coverup of the very obvious link to the 1946 Jerusalem bombing on July 22nd. And the fact that our traitor is himself a rabid Zionist shooting and killing even more people than even his fellow Zionist settler Baruch Goldstein in Hebron in 1994. Tell us a more about that a bit.
Viddal: I didn't hear your question.
Dr. Fetzer: Torstein, about the event in Hebron in 1994 where the Zionist settler shot a lot of people too.
Viddal: Yes, that is right. So Anders Breivik shot even more people than this Zionist settler in Hebron, yes.
Dr. Fetzer: And who was this Zionist settler killing in Hebron?
Viddal: He was killing people coming out of the mosque, I think?
Dr. Fetzer: He was killing Muslims.
Viddal: Yes, yes.
Dr. Fetzer: Oh my goodness. So in Norway maybe from his point of view these young leaders of the liberal party, the Progressive Party in Norway are just as dispiccable as are those Muslims in Hebron. I mean is there a parallel there that we can draw?
Viddal: No, because I think as Nick said earlier in this show Breivik says in his manifesto that we have to join forces with the Zionists in Israel and fight all anti-Zionists. All anti-Semites and all the anti-Zionists. Obviously these labor kids at this island were very much involved in anti-Zionist activities. They were supporting a banner which said "Boycott Israel"and also rehearsing you know like a street theater, but just from a fjord they were rehearsing you know the flotilla --
Dr. Fetzer: Yes.
Viddal: One boat which --
Dr. Fetzer: I think that one poster in which you show, I think you even have a photograph of "Boycott Israel" speaks volumes. Israel of course has been very upset with Norway. Norway as I gather has been very supportive of the recognition of a Palestinian state.
Viddal: That's right.
Dr. Fetzer: And here you have young people who are talking about boycotting Israel. Israelis think nothing is more effective to convert the people into pro-Israelis than to have a terrorist attack that is blamed on some force that they, you know, [create as] a false flag attack. It seems to me this is very strong confirmation that what we actually have here is a contrived plot by Zionist sympathizers and even coming from Israel in order to try to affect the Norwegian public by instilling, using acts of violence to instill fear into the population and manipulate it for political purposes. That is a classic definition of terrorism.
Kollerstrom: I would like to come in here Jim. Everything you say may be true, but if so there is virtually no trace of definite evidence. We may want to take Webster Tarpley's view on this. His analysis of the Norway terror event involves U.S. intelligence agencies conducting surveillance inside Norway and in partcular having liaison with Norwegian police officers. And they actually gave a warning to Norway that it wasn't taking potential terror attacks especially seriously and indicated that something might have to be done about this. He gives some details of this liaison of Norwegian police with American intelligence and he thinks this may have been a way in which disloyal elements of the Norwegian police force were made to function. This may be something more possibly viable as an explanation.
Dr. Fetzer: Well, a lot of those elements even in American intelligence are pro-Zionist. I mean we had all these members of the neo-conservatives in the Department of Defense on 9/11 including Paul Wolfowitz, Donald [Douglas] Feith, and Richard Pearl. I mean this would not be surprising if there was an overlap, because nobody stands more to benefit from this act than Israel.
Kollerstrom: Yes, well I wonder if Torstein has heard about this. According to Tarpley, the spy cell which the U.S. was creating in Norway was called the SDU. Surveillance Detection Unit. And these SDU's operate within the framework of something called the Security Incident Management Analysis System [SIMAS], and that is used as spying surveillance by U.S. embassies in the Nordic block. Have you come across this?
Viddal: Yes, it was revealed both in Sweden and Norway last fall, last autumn in 2010. And right after the Swedish revelation you had this one man bombing thing going on in the Christmas shopping street, in Stockholm.
Kollerstrom: Do you think that could have been instrumental in creating disloyal elements within the Norwegian police?
Viddal: Everything is possible. You have not touched on, there is a 22-7 commission being formed, and I was invited to take photographs when they were walking in the area of the bomb.
Kollerstrom: Yes, yes.
Viddal: I have some pictures of them on Googleplus. The thing is that already in their manifest for this commission it says that they are supposed to find out everything about this lone bomber. This one terrorist who is already defined that it is only one person. And also it says that they are not there to establish blame or anything, just there to find out as much as possible. [Sound quality begins to sound garbled].
Dr. Fetzer: Are you there? This sounds very much as though it is set up like the Warren Commission who investigate Lee Oswald. The lone demented killer, where even Bertrand Russell observed that he thought they were missing a section in their report, namely who killed JFK?
Kollerstrom: Yes. Well I think you need to compaign [garbled sound, next few words are unintelligible] as soon as possible so we can see what evidence there is, and try to press for a basic inquiry. I think it is hopeful that the Norwegian Prime Minister talked about the need for more democracy, more openness, more humanity in response to this bombing, and let's hope this does lead to an open citizens inquiry.
Dr. Fetzer: Torstein do you think there is a realistic expectation that this could actually happen?
Viddal: What can happen?
Dr. Fetzer: That there could be a formal inquiry that might actually be legitimate? I mean the parameters you are describing indicate it is so circumscribed it is only going to investigate Breivik and his background. And since they are not being asked to determine responsibility, whether anyone else happened to be involved is something that is beyond their mandate.
Viddal: Yes, it is very, very narrowed down, and I think this whole issue at least if you suspect some police complicity it has to be taken to a higher level. Maybe abroad, I don't know.
Kollerstrom: Yes. Could I ask you one detail, Torstein?
Viddal: Yes.
Kollerstrom: Evidence for a second killer, shooting, on the island, was anything ever heard of him. Were there any pictures of him at all? Or did he just fade away?
Viddal: No pictures, but I heard one witness talk about a strange man swimming to the shore. Nobody had seen him before on the island who fit the description of a dark patrolman.
Kollerstrom: Very well.
Dr. Fetzer: Swimming ashore, you mean away from the island to the mainland.
Viddal: Yes, to the mainland.
Dr. Fetzer: Well that is pretty disturbing all by itself.
Viddal: Yes, but also --
Dr. Fetzer: it would imply a conspiracy. It seems to me there are multiple indications that elements of the Norwegian police, the Oslo police, were implicated in this. The long delay, the fact that he was in a uniform. That he has these dum dum bullets. That the response wasn't by helicopter. That the explosion appears to be of a different kind than could have been created by the elements to which Breivik had access. Where the police have destroyed the potential for investigating. All of these smack of complicity by the Oslo police in this atrocity. [A long pause]. Nick --
Kollerstrom: Well yes, I think that is one thing that we can suggest, and make out a good case for. Israeli involvement remains speculative.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes, but since Israel had more to gain than anybody else and since Israel is going to have a lot of influence on the American intelligence apparatus, this guy is a pro-, extreme pro-Zionist, it seems to me there is a very reasonable explanation here that makes more sense even if there are some details that remain to be fleshed out. Remember Nick we are talking here not about a definitive analysis, we are talking about a tentative analysis that makes the most sense of what happened here. This isn't the last word, but it does appear to me based upon the principle of inference of the best explanation that this is the hypothesis that would provide the most adequate explanation of what is going on here, especially when you consider the means, the motive, and the opportunity applied to this case.
Kollerstrom: Yes, right, right. Well let us hope that journalists from the newspaper Aften Posten can get some more details about the terror training exercise that went on from the days preceding it, because that is very much a key to how false flag terror events are perpetrated, that the terror drill spills out into the real world. It suddenly becomes real.
Dr. Fetzer: Yes, just as in the 7-7 London bombings.
Kollerstrom: Yes.
Dr. Fetzer: You have a training op at the very same tube stations at the very same times that these explosions take place, Nick. That cannot be a coincidence any more than what we are talking about here in Norway can be a coincidence.
Kollerstrom: Yes, yes.
Dr. Fetzer: Torstein, would you like to add a few further thoughts about all this.
Viddal: Yes, I was also thinking about the new term you heard from America about state crimes against democracy. This seems obviously like a crime against democracy, you know, killing politicans and youth politicians. But what remains to be seen is if there is some state connection to it. It seems it could resemble some NATO-Gladio-style terrorism.
Kollerstrom: Very much, yes. I am glad you mentioned that. Gladdio -yes. Very much reminiscent of NATO-Gladio.
Dr. Fetzer: So would there be high-ranking right wing politicians who might have been the instigators of this in connection with possibly their associates within the Zionist movement. Perhaps even in Israel, although I grant as Nick has observed that is a degree of speculation. I am willing to ask are there right wing politicians who might see a malevolent act like this as advancing their political interests?
Viddal: Is that for me?
Kollerstrom: Torstein that is for you.
Viddal: I did not hear much of the question, I am sorry.
Dr. Fetzer: Do you think there are right wing politicians in Norway who might have been sympathetic to an action like this, even supported it, possibly initiated it?
Viddal: Not to the action, but to his politics and to his ideology. He had lots of people in both the media and in politics who are sympathetic to Anders Breivik.
Dr. Fetzer: That is fairly stunning all by itself. Have right wing politicians spoken out to condemn his act, or have they said this indicates what we have to do, we have to become a stronger supporter of Israel?
Viddal: Yes, of courese all the politicians have gone on record taking distance from his acts, yes.
Dr. Fetzer: Is there anything you would like to say here as we tie together the loose ends?
Kollerstrom: Well I think that we have had a very good review of the story. I am still under the impression that the man in black found in Oslo is not Breivik, but some actor, part of the territorial rehearsal. And there is no conceivable way that Breivik could have planned something in which he is wandering around dressed in black wearing a gun just next to government buildings. That is totally unthinkable. I think that is one of the most inclusive parts of the story. And I would like to hear if we could get a big more focus on what blew up. The story I heard is that people were complaining that they could see no trace of any car or a crater after the blast. And then five days later a crater was discovered.
Dr. Fetzer: Five days later a crater was discovered.
Sollerstrom: Yes, that was the story.
Viddal: The crater we have seen was from a still from a video. The video was of course shot on the first day. The first hour. So I do not know why we haven't seen those images of the crater from other sources.
Dr. Fetzer: Torstein, when you were there, did you see the crater yourself?
Viddal: We were not allowed to go that close.
Dr. Fetzer: Well Torstein I cannot thank you enough for being here. I would like to have you and Nick back to discuss this even further. Nick, I appreciate your arranging this interview with Torstein and you made many contributions, and I am very grateful to you both.
Vidal: Thank you very much.
Kollerstrom: It was a pleasure, Jim.
Viddal: Yes.
Dr. Fetzer: This is Jim Fetzer, your host on the Real Deal, thanking my special guests for this segment. Please stand by for more to continue on The Real Deal. I will be right back. [1:30:56 beginning of the break. The last part of the second hour of Dr. Fetzer's two hour show involved an interview with Tony Farrell about the London 7-7 bombing, which is not included in this transcript].