Red Ice Radio

Henrik Palmgren
erview with

Luukanen-Kilde, M.D.

The Norway Massacre,
Anders Behring Breivik
& Mind Control

4 August 2011


Editor's Note: This transcription provided by William B. Fox, Publisher, America First Books is reasonably but not totally accurate for false flag research purposes.

MP3 download:
2011-08-04 Henrik Palmgren interview with Rauni-Leena Luukanen-Kilde – The Norway Massacre, Anders Behring Breivik & Mind Control (Red Ice Radio, Sweden, Red Ice Program Page on the The Norway Massacre and Mind Control, Part 1 download here, Part 1, 27.5 MB, 56 min; Part 2 download here, 27.7 MB, 57 min).




Intro: This is Red Ice Radio. The appearance of the esoteric, redicecreations.com.
Henrik Palmgren: It is great to have you with us today, thank you for taking the time to tune into Red Ice Radio. Our web site is redicecreations.com. Please go there to follow our latest updates and for more radio, commercial free, for you to enjoy streaming or download, directly from the web site. My name is Henrik Palmgren and we are coming to you from Sweden on the Scandinavian penninsula. And we say a warm welcome to everyone tuning in from around the globe. It has now been almost two weeks since the attacks on Norway, Friday the 22nd of July. And as more and more information comes to light and also being buried, we are today going to run through what is known at this point about the Oslo bombing, the shootings at Utoya, the motives of the accused Anders Behring Breivik and the possibility of him being a victim of mind control. We are going to discuss his manifesto 2083 a European Declaration of Independence. We will also talk about the inconsistencies, the strange action by certain people in the right places, and how this tragedy now is being used for political purposes. Finally, we look closer at the symbolism involved in this massacre as well. We have with us Rauna Leena Luukanen Kilde, a medical doctor originally from Finland but she is currently living in Norway. She was the chief medical officer of Lapland and now she is more known for her books and lectures on mind control and conspiracies. Her work also includes parapsychology and out of body experiences. Stay with us for the next two hours. Well, well, Rauni, it is good to have you back with us of course. When we talked with you last time in May we timely talked about mind control. We talked about the school shootings in Finland and the gun laws and the consequences that this has had now, but just, here we are, a few months or years later faced with one of the biggest massacres since World War Two in terms of Norwegian history, and I would reckon the history of the European continent as well. At least this kind of crime. It is an incredible situation. And of course you are in Norway yourself. What is your first impression of all of this Rauni? I see we began to see the news unfolding, and so forth. What is your first reaction when you saw all of this?
Dr. Luukanen-Kilde: When I heard first of course about the bombings, so-called car bomb that devastated the city, in the middle with all the government buildings, I thought that was very strange when it was followed with the shooting of the youths on the island. And immediately the first thought was this man is mind-controlled and this was planned a long time ago. This is not what the official proof is coming out in the mass media. I was just convinced immediately that there is a lot behind, that they are hiding from the general public, and they still do hide. So I think it is a tremendous operation to cause trauma, to cause political gain, to maybe give kind of a hit to Norway because Norway is today on the first of August pulling out all of its flights from Libya and up to now Norway has been the country that has been bombing Libya more than anybody else. Almost 600 hits. And just now I heard on the 22nd, which is the same date of the massacre here, on the 22nd Norway was bombing Libya's waterlines and water installations so that 75% of the houses in Libya are now without water. And it was stated that 90% of all Libya is now without water. Now that is atrocious. So there are many things that are happening. On the other hand on the island it was very soon revealed that the foreign minister [Jonas] Gahr Store had given a talk, and it was publicized and there he supported a Palestinian independent state and a Palestinian spirit. He said in spirit we support. Now that definitely is not very, very favorable for Israelis, I don't think. So there are a lot of things that are tying up. It is not simple.
Palmgren: Absolutely, I totally agree. We have the NATO/CIA connection. We have the Palestine-Israel conflict being waged on Norwegian soil pretty much at this point. We want to go through some of these details later just as you mention. There is much to this as well in terms of the timing of all of this. But if we begin kind of at the beginning in terms of the events that unfolded on the 22nd, one of the first things that I did was to analyze the material that was available at the time, made a video about some of the inconsistencies that I saw in terms of the bombing alone. I tried to point out that it was strange -- there wasn't any big gush in the street or crater or what have you. But this has consequently more material coming out all the time, and many things is pointing to the fact there might have been a car then placed very, very close to the government building. The H-block building as it is called. But there are still so many questions remaining of course about who allowed it to be there. And ultimately obviously the thing that will answer these questions is if we ever will get to see some of the CCTV, the surveillance camera footage. Do you think that we will get to that situation, Rauni?
Dr. L-K: Well, not right now, because the investigations are going on. Of course they will hide. But as for the crater, you know I paid attention because the net magazine nyhetsspeilet.no was writing about this incident, and then there were many people writing and asking why is there no crater? Why are there no signs in the street that there was a car bomb? And after these writings, six days after it was on the 28th, Verdens Gang the biggest newspaper here in Norway, they showed a video, and there was a huge crater, and they said it exploded inside the road, or inside the asphalt and went into the garage of the building, of the government building. Now why would it take six days to show that after people had criticized that there were no signs? Then a bomb expert was saying just recently tht it seemed that the bomb was inside. And that may be of course the fire that was upstairs there. And many of the glasses of the windows they also went outside into the street. Instead of also going inside. So of course when they blast they go all over. But there are many, many questions that do not fit with the official explanation.
Palmgren: Absolutely, I have been looking at the material from the crater and you know the hole or the gush close to the building and one thing obviously that someone pointed out is even the way the roof is sloping downward. Implying, and again this is just speculation, understandably, but implying the force mingt have come from top and come down, creating this kind of crater as well.
Dr. L-K: Exactly.
Palmgren: But the question that still remains for me of course is that apparently one security guard lost his life during this, and this might have been the guard who went out to take a look at the van, and I don't know how the security was at the time, but the big question for me is of course how can a van park there? We might be talking about a minute and a half in total that he drove in the car, parked it close to the building, basically just jumped out and a minute or a minute and a half later it exploded, which is of course a very, very short time. Understandably this would have been difficult for the security people to actually do something about. What do you think about that, Rauni?
Dr. L-K: Well, he has been in the video, at least according to newspapers. That he was filmed but not with a car or something. At least no news said about that, but he himself has been shown, not shown, but he stated that he was there. Now like it says, at first he put a big manifest into the Internet, then he made the car bomb explode, then he ran into the car, 40 kilometers, took the ferry to the island, and then started shooting. Now there is something that doesn't fit. So a lot of questions are there. Most of it is mostly speculation, but I am convinced that the truth is coming out slowly, and I think those who were behind the whole thing, not only him -- he is a mind-controlled patsy -- totally clear, but those who planned it. So that, I don't think they realize that people's awareness has risen from September 11th when people were shocked and knew nothing. So people start asking questions. And of course to cause trauma for a whole nation, that has not happened in Scandinavia ever to this degree. Not after the Second World War. So to keep on this trauma, every day the news, every day there are concerts and speeches and people are remembering those who are dead, which is fine, but it also keeps it rolling all the time.
Palmgren: Yes, that is right.
Dr. L-K: And the thing that hit me right the next day that when they first had announced that these govenrment buildings were hit, then they announced of course later that so and so many people, and the figures were totally wrong. That can be explained in the errors of course. You can't count everybody. But they did say that 86 died. Now the police said it is 68. Now in all intelligence operations, you flip everythng upside down. And 86 and 68 is exactly upside down, but the main point was that in the news, all the news was concentrating on the island and the dead young people. So the shift of the focus from the government buildings came to the human side of it and that was very well done. And nobody really talks so much about the government buildings any more. It is always only the dead and the wounded.
Palmgren: Yes, that is right. I have been trying to look into the timeline, and I am still working on this. I have not been to detail everything. Apparently there was a three hour delay. The police claimed that they obviously have caught the cars that he was renting into Volkswagen crafter, big vans. One apparently that housed the bomb, and then one he drove out to the island, and then there was a third car involved. A Fiat Doblò or whatever it is called, which he drove lastly from his place in Rena down to Oslo before the attack, basically. And I am personally wondering as well obviously where did he send out this manifesto as you pointed out from? Did he do this at the apartment of his mom and speculate that he staid there over the night. But I am not sure that the timeline makes sense just quite yet, because there is a three hour delay if you will in the operation and he claimed that he was delayed. That is what I have been able to read from the papers so far. Do you have anything else to point out in regards to the timeline, Rauni?
Dr. L-K: No, no, but except that I just heard that was it yesterday new news or something that his driving from Oslo to the island, to the mainland next to the island, was delayed because of a car crash. Now I don't think, why are they giving that kind of information now and not in the first days? So I do not believe what official explanations are. But it was interesting that a day before, because in Rena he has this farm, he has had it for about a month, and they were finding later explosives there. So there was an earthquake there the day before.
Palmgren: Yes, that is right.
Dr. L-K: So that is very strange. And also it is very strange that in Oslo people were reporting black helicopters. A lot of helicopter activity in Oslo. Why? Before!
Palmgren: There was a bomb drill as well, and I haven't, do you know what building this was at? Have you heard about that drill that was on-going a few days --?
Dr. L-K: No, but if you say that there was a drill in that case it is exactly the same scenario like they always have, those who are behind this. Because the drill was also in September 11th. Remember?
Palmgren: That's right.
Dr. L-K: Dick Cheney and George W. Bush were sitting -- there was a drill at the same time as the planes officially crashed. In London when there was a metro accident, there was a drill with bombs going plus the real bombs going. So I didn't know that they had a drill here. So they used the same. They always use the same scenario because it works.
Palmgren: Yes.
Dr. L-K: And a few days before I was very surprised and I looked up because there is a lot of chemtrail activity and that was a lot of chemtrail activity around Oslo also, which of course is military activity. But I heard some very hard sounds in the sky, and so I went out, and one, two, three black, almost black-grey bombers went very low over my house. Very low. I mean I was shocked, and they had no signs. No Norwegian flag. No nothing. It was just grey-black bombers. And I thought, whew! That is kind of a warning sign, what is going to happen. And they do talk about black helicopters in the States, you know, that are doing things when something is happening, so there is definitely a military thing involved.
Palmgren: So what if we look, point out as well, there was maintenance being done at least on the R4 building, you know, on the right hand side opposite to the H-block building where the majority of the damage was done to basically, but in the opposite way there was some kind of maintenance being done? And there was some kind of underground work, I believe, was happening underneath the buildings which adds to this pile, obviously, but can we talk a bit about fertilizer bombs and maybe go back to Oklahoma City and compare some of the things bewteen here then. Because one of the questions here of course is how much damage can a fertilizer bomb do and how far does the shock wave go, and I am not an expert on this obviously, and I do not know how much you know either, Rauni, would you think that this is possible. Is it prossilbe a fertilzer bomb doing all this damage that we saw?
Dr. L-K: Well, locally, I think. But why would it do it so that they were heard 30 kilometers away in other commuities around Oslo, and all the city of Oslo if this is true. Because I am very skeptical about the official news in the mass media. And I am not an expert on bombs, so I really don't know.
Palmgren: Yes, yes.
Dr. L.-K. But its sounds that there is something that is not correct. And what is not correct in my mind is that the whole thing about a bomb is a hoax. Because it seems that it was done with Tesla Technology, with HAARP type of technology coming from the sky. And of course that you cannot oppose. I mean, how could we? How could anybody? And we had Klar Vayanta(sp?16:36) at nyhetsspeilet.no, she has said before this that she has seen that it comes from the sky. And I immediately when I heard about this, I thought this is HAARP-type of technology.They are experimenting and the car bomb is just a camouflage. I saw a thing that supports this. I saw the TV, I do not have TV for various reasons, but I went to a friend and saw a TV, and there was a quick show of a car, and it was very interesting, because I had just been to Amsterdam to a secret space program, where they showed surprisingly September 11th damages which I had never heard of. You know many, many blocks away the cars were without engines. They had melted or dematerialized or whatever. And of course that came from the sky. It did not come from any planes or the burning of the skyscrapers or something. So that for the first time I saw what the cars looked like when the Tesla HAARP technology hits, you know, the ground, in this Oslo TV one of the cars I understood would have been the car bomb, it was missing the roof, but underneath, the underpart was in tact and the roof missing, was cut with a laser. And it was all brown like it was burnt. And I thought, oh, this is exactly what I saw in Amsterdam.
Palmgren: Are you talking about the car that was kind of lying on its side?
Dr. LK: The car that they probably showed that was the car bomb.
Palmgren: Well obviously you are referring to the work of Dr. Judy Wood who we have had with us on this show. Risa Holger [spelling? 18:29] went through some of the material in Amsterdam.
Dr. L-K: Right.
Palmgren: This is about a directed energy weapon and well so far I would have to disagree with that analysis because I don't see it. I see that something must have gone off on this surface. I have had several people writing me obviously when I did this video and some excellent information has been coming out, including some people who have actually been writing me from Ireland about when the IRA were performing some of the car bombs there as well. And in some cases you are left in a situation where basically you have nothing left of the car. And in this case you have small, small, small fragments lying towards the side of the buildings. I am not saying another type of weapon was used as well to create this blast. But what I am saying as well is that what we are seeing at this point there must have definitely been some sort of surface blast, ie a car bomb if you will. The question is could this have caused this much damage.
Dr. L-K: Exactly. But they need to camouflage the whole thing. That is for sure.
Palmgren: So obviously much of this hopefully will be revealed when we see some of the CCTV camera footage as well, because there is loads there. But we will run through, will continue to run through some of these inconsistencies in the story and try to detail it. Should we move on to Utoya island, Rauni or is there something more you want to mention about the bombings right now?
Dr. L-K: No, I am fine.
Palmgren: So it took him quite a bit to drive out to the island, obviously, and the stories that we have been getting right now is that the main point obviously is that the police have been criticized for taking up to 90 minutes to get to the island while at the same time a media helicopter was there before police filming this thing. Have you heard anything about an explanation why it took so long for the police to get there?
Dr. L-K: No, not really, because I don't believe what the police says, actually, because when people were trying to call the police, the children, the teenagers at the island had called their parents. Like one father was interviewed and so the father called the police trying to tell them that, you know, there is this bombing going on, and so the police refused to take the announcement and said he would have to call themselves. And then this was Oslo police, and this island belongs to the area of Buskerud area, and they didn't take any calls. People tried to call, and they couldn't get to the police. So to me it seems the police slowing up of the actionsis deliberate. That is what they have done in these kinds of actions. It is like if you remember the murder of Olof Palme. It took a long, long time before the police comes. So that is why people get confused, and the man who is shooting, he gets more and more and more time. I don't think this was a coincidence. And especially when the shooter was dressed in a police uniform. They always use symbolism, which is incredible. And of course the symbolism for a police uniform in my mind is the state, you know, which is behind in a way.
Palmgren: Yes.
Dr. L-K: Now this is just a false flag operation in my mind.
Palmgren: The Norwegian police, the equivalent to the Delta Team or whatever they call that, said that there was no problem, no delay from their point of view in getting -- they had a proper boat and everything was in order. It was just they weren't called sooner to the location to get out there and to get help.
Dr. L-K: So why did they refuse to take their part of announcements?
Palmgren: That's right.
Dr. L-K: The children had to call.
Palmgren: That's right.
Dr. L-K: The police does not tell the truth. Of course they can't tell the truth, that they were maybe involved somehow, especially when eyewitnesses say there were more than one who was shooting.
Palmgren: Right. Two shooters have been reported. What do you make of this and what have you heard so far about that?
Dr. L-K: The same, the same.
Palmgren: Yes, yes.
Dr. L-K: The main thing is that the police insist that there is only one, because there is only one theory, which they always use. Like in Oklahoma, or wherever. There is only one, because that is easy. That one who is a mind-controlled patsy will admit anything he is programmed to say. And the others are laid down. So things are not the way we are being told, but luckily I think things are coming out. More and more people are asking questions, but the thing is that the Norwegian people are very unaware of these kinds of atrocities, and nobody can believe that police would be against -- or police and the military would be against their own people. I mean, this is atrocious. They can't take that.
Palmgren: And also of course Rauni what this would entail is obviously just what a few so-called right people in the right places in order to prevent a time delay enough in certain areas to make this, for the opeation to go through, basically. But the eyewitnesses had some interesting stories, obviously, about the two shooters, because obviously since they heard gun shots from different places at the island basically at the same time, then what I heard afterwards in hindsight, because that is another problem here that we face as well, are they piecing together this story for us afterwards? Should we rely more on the stories directly after they come out? Obviously we have to take into account the fact that these kids are traumatized.
Dr. L-K: For life.
Palmgren: They are scared witless. So how correct is their memory, how correct is it going to be to be able to listen to this? So I take that into account as well. I am not jumping to conclusions here, but again one of the eyewitnesses I heard in hindsight said that he had been told that the one shooter had apparently taken off his police uniform at some point, and jumped into a boat, driven around the island, jumped back to the island, and now in a different outfit started shooting at people there. That is why they got the impression there were two shooters. And I could not help to think about the fact he might have been told that afterwards by the police. At the same time if that is what is really happening, this is a really well-slick psychological way of doing it, if he is just one guy, right?
Dr. L-K: Right, but I don't believe in that. I really don't. I think that he was really shooting, and if there was another one he was also shooting. No, no, there are so many things that are unanswered and of course it is speculation from our part too. We were not there.
Palmgren: That is right.
Dr.L-K: But those who were there, they are traumatized, but they do remember also. And if they are not mind-controlled, you know if they are not being done electron beam dissolution of the memory, which can be done to them too, you know, so they don't remember. And when you are in terrible shock, it may be that you don't remember things correctly.
Palmgren: That is right. Did you hear about the other person that was shot in the, I think it was Sundeness, a few days later there was apparently a break-in at a house and one person was shot in the head basically at point blank range. This obviously had been understandably buried in the media because of all of this other activity. What if that was the second shooter, right there, they would have taken him out. Have you heard about this Rauni?
Dr. L-K: I heard of something like that. Something only that someone was shot, but I didn't pay attention because I didn't even think it would have any relevance to this thing.
Palmgren: Yes.
Dr. L-K: It could be.
Palmgren: It could be, it could be.
Dr. L-K: It could be, hmmm. But we will never get to find that truth out, if it is. I never thought he was in contact with that, but we never know.
Palmgren: We never know. We don't know right at the moment, anyway. Do you think that we can attribute some of this to Scandinavian culture, Norwegian, Swedish culture, or Finnish as well in that sense? If we look at the way things have been handled there is a tendency to be maybe slightly slower on these things. We don't have the preparedness that maybe other countries have. People can't put this in the framework of we acting like the United States or France or Germany or England or something like that. There is a different speed to things up here. And furthermore, the way that the material has been released in the media has been showing the same signs of this as well. If we were in Germany, France, the United States you would perhaps see another drive from the journalists who in many cases don't have government-funded papers and state-owned television channels like we do here where basically we have a set of journalists who are sitting around waiting for the authorities to preapprove material that is released, if you know what I mean.
Dr. L-K: Yes, but one thing that struck me was that for three days, the PST, which is the civilian secret police of Norway, did not react. And even Anne Holt who is a criminal author, not criminal, but I mean writing about criminal things.
Palmgren: That is right, yes.
Dr. L-K: And so she was for two months our Justice Minister, until in my mind she was beamed to bleeding so badly inside, because she tried to take an order for the secret services and their criminality and their criminal actions and whatever, and so she had to resign. So she came out now and said that, just a minute, I am blocked, somebody doesn't want me to say what she said! Yes, she was very much against, or criticizing the PST, the secret police, that they had not opened their mouth for three days. And then it hit me why they hadn't said anything -- anything. Whatever. And then Janne Kristiansen, it is a lady who is the Chief of the Secret Police now in Norway, she came out and she said that it is not possible to prevent something like this unless the population is micro-chipped. And then she added, but we don't yet think that could be done. Will be done. Imagine! Imagine!! Now that is something. So that is something that is coming, because that is already planned in the United States. Obama's health law which has not been accepted in the Senate as I have understood yet, there as a first nation in the world, he says he does not use the word "microchip." He uses another word, but it is a microchip, that it will be compulsory for all Americans to have a chip.
Palmgren: Some of the first experiments on implants in this way was done in Sweden, I believe. I think in that regards the Nordic countries might be a spearheading of some of this, actually. What would you think?, Rauni?
Dr. R-K: Yes, that is true, because already Olav Falmic? [sp? 29:40] gave permission to people in prisons and in the old people's homes in '73 I think it was. '72-72. And as I have understood, Norway has many sleepers, and I call this serial killer a sleeper who was awakened up. And how do they get them? Through vaccination. You know, it is not a coincidence in my mind that Bill Gates was here some time ago. And he wants the population to be microchipped with vaccinations. He has said it officially. Also, George Soros was here, and he is originally Hungarian. Illuminati of course. He was here. And I was told from Denmark that Prime Minister Stoltenberg had had a meeting in Switzerland with Fogh Rasmussen NATO's chief, so some big things have been sort of planned.
Palmgren: Yes, I mean even Alan Dershowitz was in Norway recently too, speaking to the Chabad community in Oslo, I think.
Dr. L-K: I don't know about that.
Palmgren: So this is interesting here we have a situation also now then where the police are starting to, today this was released, they are starting to confiscate all the cell phones, I-pads, cameras, and what have you in order to collect data on the accused movements on the island, which also of course could be about deleting sensitive data as well, about the second shooter, maybe, who knows? What do you think, Rauni?
Dr. L-K: Well, they might find out some thing, but today's paper, today VG (Verdens Gang] said that now Norwegian people according to Gallup, they want more severe punishments, and of course punishments never work, I mean I don't care how big a punishment you have, it does not prevent somebody who is criminal from doing it. And they want more and more surveillance. And that is dangerous. I think that is exactly what happened in the States after Sept 11th, you know, Patriot Act. People are willing to give out their privacy just to get what they think is security from the police.
Palmgren: Yes, that is right. That's right.
Dr. L-K: And that is a big, big, big mistake. And now it is big headlines in the paper today that people want more surveillance. Miroivagne [sp? 32:11] like they said. Now I think that is very, very dangerous, because that means of course everybody, and that is what the chief of the secret police was hinting to, that everybody should be micro-chipped. That is how they can prevent things.
Palmgren: That's right.
Dr. L-K: Things are really going to be bad if these things go as they had planned. And of course this is part of the planning.
Palmgren: The police apparently knew the gunman's name, as well. They called him out, and he basically surrendered at that point. That's pretty interesting.
Dr. L-K: Yes, I heard that. But it has been denied afterwards, so I do not know what the truth is. It was announced, I think it was in England, what's his name, Snow or something. The journalist who announced that. The police called him by name. And afterwards, a day or two after, it was announced that no, this was not true. Now that would be against the police, if it was true. So they have to deny it. So I don't know what the truth is.
Palmgren: Yep, that is right. It is muddy at this point. I mean if that is the case, could that potentially be attributed to real quick excellence in investigation on the part of the fact that they immediately checked the CCTV security camera, saw the license plate of the van, and checked out where this came from, called or contacted the car rental company, and they confirmed right away who actually had the lease to them. Is that a possibility, do you think? Thats the way they could have known his name.
Dr. L-K: I never thought of it so. That is probably speculation, but why not?
Palmgren: Yes.
Dr. L-K: But I never thought of it.
Palmgren: That is the only thing that would explain to me, and again I am not putting it past anybody, of course. I am not here to discount the way that things are happening, or even the way it is unfolding, because again if we can still go back of this idea, Rauni, that if he is a sleeper, if he is a mind control agent, he might have pulled all this off himself, and it does make sense. The timeline is there. It still implies that someone else is behind his programming, if you know what I mean.
Dr. L-K: Absolutely. You don't program yourself, and it takes years to program somebody. And who is doing the programming, normally? It is very interesting that I heard that our justice minister would have called and asked Mossad to come here, I read that in fact a Mossad representative is coming --
Palmgren: Yes.
Dr. L-K: And then MI5 and CIA. Of course they are always here, hidden, but I mean officially now. My question is what are they doing here? Are not Norwegians good enough to investigate by themselves? Or are they coming to investigate the man, reprogramming him, or programming him, or what are they doing, because they are experts. They are the ones who are doing all these programmings. It was mentioned in the Internet that, well, everything has been deleted about him on the Internet, but something was added while he was in jail already, that on the 23rd, something that he was the conservative Christian or something like that.
Palmgren: Yes.
Dr. R-K: And then they stated that he was -- I heard the conversation on the radio, by an expert -- that he was many, many, many times, all the time looking at some videos, and they called them war videos, and this expert said no, it actually is not a war video, it is a video which has a team, and then there is a hero in the team, like he would be the hero of the team. But there is a team, absolutely a team, and this video showed how a lonesome man goes to an island and kills the people. And that was taken away. Because I do not think that many people, even if they are ignorant, wouldn't stop thinking "How is it possible that he looks like, you know -- of course it is programming, programming, programming." And of course there are other means how to do programming too. And it takes years and years to make that much hate like he has, and the question is, well, since he is very pro-Israel, and anti-Muslim, so why didn't he attack a mosque?
Palmgren: Absolutely. The first question right there.
Dr. L-K: Why did he attack white youths?
Palmgren: Exactly. I mean, OK, you know he is a political leftist at the root of the problem here, but still it doesn't make sense. And I wonder, will detail with you later on in terms of the inconsistencies of his manifesto, if that is even written by him. We don't know at this point, and I would suggest that it is not, just looking at it.
Dr. L-K: Yes, I agree with you.
Palmgren: This whole thing might be just a concoction, if you will, but the question here obviously is the muddy paths of Anders Behring Breivik, as the media now obviously understandably begin to plaster his whole life and detail, every aspect of his background in the media as if in an effort to try to understand what triggered him to do this, and what some of the points are here that might have caused these things to stir up in him. But a little bit more here first on the island. I wanted to ask you about this too, because let's see here, if we look at the gun laws in Norway, if the security guard that was there, and interestingly this was Trond Berntsen, the step brother of Norway's Crown Princess, Mette-Marit.
Dr. L-K: Step brother, yes.
Palmgren: And if he had had a gun, because he was there as a security guard. He used to be there as a police as well. He could actually have prevented this whole thing. Not the whole thing, but at least all the shootings on the island from happening. And now of course, Rauni, turning this against on the flip side and saying, see how bad guns are. See what they can do, what damage they can do.
Dr. L-K: Exactly.
Palmgren: What if you reverse the situation and say things like, "No, actually if you outlaw guns then only outlaws are the ones who are going to have the guns. If you know what I mean?
Dr. L-K: Exactly, but that is the aim in the States, also in Finland with the gun laws. Because that is the number one aim, to take away all the guns from the civilians so that nobody can protect themselves against government terrorism if that is coming. And like in Finland we had this, I would say this proof of it, because when we had this school shooting, the first one, the next day, the NATO Chief came, they are trying to push us into NATO, but the people don't want to. We don't want to go under American control. And then they wanted us to change the gun laws. And they only change it very, very little, because we had said no to Finland to changing gun laws. And so in the European Union it is no, if a country says no, it is no. So they had to do something. Then came one year after the other shooting because we didn't do enough. Now they have really restricted the gun laws.
Palmgren: Yes.
Dr. L-K: I think it is two years you have to go to a shooting school or whatever. So there is always that behind it. Take away guns from the civilians so that they cannot protect themselves.
Palmgren: I think that one law was already passed, I think it was in Australia, maybe New Zealand because of the Norway shooting, and they forced in some kind of ban I think on semi-automatics, or something like that. So we can see that this has effects worldwide. And that is why it is so interesting with this story why this guy Anders Breivik, who had this pen name or whatever as this Andrew Berwick, that he wrote everything in English. Everything was targeted towards the international world if you will as well. It was very, very calculated, if nothing else.
Dr. L-K: That's right. Well he is a Mason also, and then it was a thing how can you be a Mason and a nationalist?
Palmgren: Yes.
Dr. L-K: Because Masons are international, but of course this is international now, the whole thing.
Palmgren: Well to me, I mean again he is now kind of turning into some kind of enigma. I would say as a recent guest brought up, it is a Gordian Knot. This is something that people will be analyzing for decades to come, as people are beginning to look at his manifesto and try to weave out and understand his psyche, and how things are, because there is nothing logical if you begin to deconstruct the reasoning. Both that is within the manifesto, his actions, and the consequences now that this is going to have. I am not saying that we are dealing with a rational person of course, but some commentators out there have pointed out that he is a brilliant strategist and things like that, and that does not make sense. So what I wanted to ask you more about though before we leave the island portion of this is some witnesses have reported that he was talking into a headset at some point.
Dr L-K: Right, I have heard the same. Like saying that someone was giving him instructions and he was talking, yes.
Palmgren: Yes.
Dr. L-K: That's right. But you don't need a headset, actually, because if you are mindcontrolled you need just a chip, and that doesn't show, and you don't even need a chip. You can be mind-controlled without, but especially when he had his earphones. So then that shows that there is something very, very wrong. Somebody was steering him officially. But it has also been stated that he has a different personalities, which always is done with mind control. You know they change your personality. You can be A, B, C , whatever, and they are totally different. His school mates said that at school time he was very helpsome and helped others who were not so good, etc. so he was a good guy. And now he is a monster, so that is what they can do with mind control. They can do it with anybody. To you and me and whoever. It takes time, and it takes time, many years of programming the frequency of hate, hate, hate, hate.
Palmgren: How do you, if we can begin to talk about this more about this specifically, and there must be something on this but there must be something in this in his past that suggests that he got into the hands of some of the people who would do this, right? I mean how do you think he ended up in the situation he did then if you look at it from the point of view that he was mind-controlled, Rauni?
Dr. L-K: Well he also lived in the states. That is one reason. And his father was a diplomat. And I think that many exchange students who go to the States, they may be microchipped without their knowledge, and then activated later. I know of some cases in Finland. So you can't say where did this happen. But in the past years it is clear that it has been programming, programming, programming. And they have succeeded, but the thing is that they do not succeed if the truth comes out to the general public.
Palmgren: That's right.
Dr. L-K: That he is not alone, that he has been programmed. Because all these serial killers who are mind-controlled, they are actually victims themselves. They are robots. No feelings. No remorse. And they have been programmed like that, so they are victims even if they are killed. And this doesn't come out very often. Everybody just hates them. He is a victim.
Palmgren: Absolutely. I wouldn't put it past some elements within Norway of possibly doing this themselves. We detailed a while back here because of the shootings and the bombing here about some of Norway's hidden history, if you will, where experiments that were made on children, subjected to LSD.
Dr. L-K: Right.
Palmgren: Even sexually abused. And this was specifically against the German-Norwegian, you know, those who had relations and had children. And they were being looked upon as being basically the shame of the nation, right? Have you heard about this?
Dr. L-K: Yes, yes. Definitely, and there was even a government committee. I was expert for one hour. I told what I knew about it because that was in 2003 the report came out, and it was about the psychiatric abuse before 1975. And because it is a government committe, of course, what they did, they did not want out that there has been abuse. On the contrary. Again, upside down. Officially they tried to dig into the abuse, but unofficially they have to prove there is no abuse. So that was the conclusion of the committee, but you know with the last few pages, I put them into my last book, Chuteraden (sp? 45:15] it is about these abuses, and mind-control with the Norwegians, and that is the experiments that were done by Dr. Semyabesin (spelling?) with American military, with NASA, with Navy, with all American funding on American people like the divers who were implanted with electrodes and 18 of them have commited suicide and they are trying to get some compensation. They didn't get it.
Palmgren: That's right. They were denied.
Dr. L-K: That's right, so now they are in Strasberg, and I doubt they will get anything there either. So this is part of Norwegian history. This is abuse of certain elements in the society. And like I said, you know, with Bill Gates here and with swine flu, which had a microchip and all that, I am sure we have a lot, a lot of sleepers.
Palmgren: Well of course we are not implying that the methods that was used, again we are talking about things that are after World War II on some of these children. We are talking about the 50's and 60's. That is a long time ago. The technology has obviously advanced on that point.
Palmgren: That's right, its microchips. And the point here being that again, if you look into what is called Norway's Lebensborn, and Lebensborn comes out of Heinrich Himler's idea of a eugenics program basically, one of them who were abused said that many of the Lebensborn children claimed that they were sexually abused, beaten, mass-raped, urinated on, washed in chemicals, and also this report then suggests that they have been subjected to experiments with LSD, and for anyone who looks into the MK Ultra program, mind-control program, knows about the ties to the LSD in the experiments.
Dr. L-K Yes. That is right.
Palmgren: So that is one thing to keep in mind. Implying basically that this is the history. What is saying that these programs have ended, and we might have a similar situation. You said that, I am just going over to the States, I read yesterday I think it was that apparently he had plastic surgery done on him? Did you hear about that?
Dr. L-K: I have heard that, but I don't know if it is true.
Palmgren: That is kind of strange. In one way.
Dr. L-K: He is a good-looking guy. So, but mind you, the first day after this incident, so Dagbladet, the daily newspaper here, printed his picture, and in that picture his face, it was big. There were two white pixels in his eyes, like microchips. Now I don't know if that was done graphically, or if it really was there, but I thought that somebody wants us to see that hey, he was microchipped. And interestingly, I referred to it because also the article said that he was a 33rd degree Mason, etc. That newspaper has been stolen from me. I was going to take it here and read some parts of it to you, but it is gone.
Palmgren: Do you recall what parts?
Dr. L-K: It was the day after, which is the 23rd. The 23rd of July.
Palmgren: He apparently went to England and obviously he looked into the Knights Templar, and if we go back to that idea that is pretty interesting to me as well that he dressed up as a freemason, he had some kind of military outfit with all the medals on it.
Dr. L-K: Right.
Palmgren: He was dressing up in some kind of biohazard suit, or something like that as well. It is almost like he is dressing up in these different costumes, in one way to whet the appetite of other conspiracy theories out there. Because on the first level it is incredible that some media that did not report on the fact that he was dressing up in a Freemasonic garb. I think what I have read is that primarily the British newspapers, and some of the CNN articles I read in support said that instead of a freemasonic suit, they said a proper suit, or something like that.
Dr. L-K: Oh really?
Palmgren: Yes, and so they refused to detail that.
Dr. L-K: And it was even on the Internet with his leather square apron for the Masons that I saw a picture of.
Palmgren: Absolutely, and the thing again is he included these images at the end of the manifesto.
Dr. L-K: Right.
Palmgren: And this is where he got this from. Obviously if you look at the pictures, that they have been photoshopped. He said this himself that in his manifesto that he has been cropping out himself, basically, from the background, and he tried to make it look nice, but it is ready to make for the media to just use the Wizard tool in photoshop and grab him out and put him in whatever situation they want, basically. It is something weird with him. Why would he include these images of himself at the end. Look, I am a Templar. Look, I am a Freemason. Isn't that strange to you, Rauni?
Dr. L-K: Yes, that is strange. I don't know about his psyche. I heard a radio psychiatrist, whom I have met once in a meeting with the justice minister and police department, she was talking about psychiatric cases and I got up and I opposed her and said why don't you make any differential diagnoses to psychologists and mind control. Why don't you even consider that mind control exists? So the speaker in the congress said, he stopped me from talking and said, "You can talk about these details later. Now the same psychiatrist now has stated that she doesn't think he is psychotic. Just recently. Because his attorney is saying that he is psychotic and he is mentally ill and whatever, and of course the attorney tries to help him or whatever out of the case, which will be impossible. But not a word of mind-control. Nobody in this whole affair has said the word "mind control" except me. Not a word. And that is a word that is forbidden to say in psychiatry. They really don't want people to know. And that is very interesting.
Palmgren: It doesn't exist to most people, that is the relationship.
Dr. L-K: But officially mind control is a non-lethal weapon in the military. I mean you can just blab that out to them.
Palmgren: Sure.
Dr. L-K: It is a non-lethal weapon in the military, so why do you say it doesn't exist.
Palmgren: That's right
Dr. L-K: And it has been taken 2002 in Geneva in UNIDIR United Nations Institute for Research to stop rearmament. It included mind control as a weapon of mass destruction just like an atomic bomb. So it is real. But people don't know about it, and they don't want to know about it. It is so horrific that they can change your attitudes, they can read your thought signals, they can make your love into hate, they can make it if you are a leftist a rightist, they can make you if you are a heterosexual to a homosexual. They can change your sexuality. They can do just about anything with mind-control, and that is so devastating that people say "No, no, no, it doesn't exist, I don't want to hear about it."
Palmgren: That is very, very interesting that you mention that because consequently as people have been digging into this, Ander's past, it seems to be like there is a multiple personality contained within there. Aparently he was photographed at a gay pride rally in 2004 in Oslo. I mean does that imply that they were trying out potentially to change his sexuality or turn him homosexual a little bit, just as you suggested? I don't know, I am just putting it out there. And his stance, political-wise, of this back and forth all the time. Of his witnessing in Rena, the city where he lived. Apparently he went to a Muslim-owned restaurant and ate there, and they said that he was very friendly all the time, and no problems. They said he was one of the nicest customers that they had. And then the other day he is a Muslim-hater. You know what I mean, the more you begin to analyze --
Dr. L-K: They can turn you into anything.
Palmgren: That is right. The more you begin to analyze his personality behind there, it doesn't make sense. Go ahead, Rauni.
Dr. L-K: No, no, I just say that is so scary technology, that I can understand people who don't want to hear about it, but then they are putting their head in the sand because I am always saying "You want this to be done to your children?" It can be done. And they just don't want to know. And like I said, now when the chief of the secret police says that the only way to prevent these kinds of things is to microchip the general population, so that is like she said, not yet. She said, not yet.
Palmgren: Not yet.
Dr. L-K: That is very, very scary. We are all robots, and they can do anything. They can change your feelings and sexuality and whatever.
Palmgren:The lawyer Geir Lippestad, a Labor Party lawyer apparently, why do you think?
Dr. L-K: I don't know. I am totally nonpolitical, so I don't follow.
Palmgren: No, I have been reading that was one of the first things that was pointed out, that he was a member of the Labor Party, and why would Anders choose that if that is what he considers to be his enemies? Is that a strategy? Do you think there is something else behind it, or why? It doesn't make sense?
Dr. L-K: I don't know, but remember everything is upside down. Everything.
Palmgren: Yes, it sure seems like it. And of course one thing that has not at all been debated by the media that you brought up before, Rauni, is his pro-Zionist stance as well.
Dr. L-K: Oh yes, he is pro-Israel. Absolutely.
Palmgren: Absolutely. Exactly.
Dr. L-K: There is no doubt about it.
Palmgren: But now he has been turned into a right wing Nazi or you know what have you. It feels like everybody is looking at this through the manifesto and trying to find their piece of evidence for whatever they don't happen to like personally and project this on to Anders Breivik. You know what I mean. He is like a persona for everyone to hate. If you know what I mean.
Dr. L-K: But they don't use the word "Nazi." I don't know why, but they seem to avoid that. Maybe that has a bad cling. But it was interesting the video was released by the Department of Homeland Security 24 hours earlier where they said that the type of person they feared most who would carry out such an attack would be just a white, blond-haired, blue-eyed, like the Norwegian.
Palmgren: That's right.
Dr. L-K: So they have shifted their enemy picture which has been Muslims and terrorists, which almost is the same for the general public, into this blond, blue-eyed right wing young male.

Second Hour


Palmgren: It has been a rise of the right wing in Europe and I think there have been, you know, credible points, real concern raised about the way that European society is being turned in terms of multiculturalism. Obviously a thing like this will totally destroy any kind of rational debate about these issues now. Right, Rauni?
Dr. L-K: Well, at least it has a -- of course the change in my mind in Norwegian society was towards Muslims, because when it was not yet announced that it was this white blue-eyed Norwegian, people thought immediately -- I did too, I thought, "Oh, it had to be a Muslim terrorist or something" when the buildings were collapsing. Then it came out later of course on the island who he was. Even in the streets of Oslo, it was stated that some people had attacked Muslims, and a lady Muslim, she was saying that she was verbally attacked. And then of course when it came out that this is a Norwegian guy, so you know then all this hatred towards Muslims has disappeared at least officially. It is not in the mass media ever, and I am thinking Norway has been more talk about this Muslim conflict with native Norwegians, at least than in Finland. We don't seem to have that much of a problem with the Muslims as they seem to have here. But now it is gone, and one good thing about this is of course the change of attitude, how people started being very loveable to each other. How people started hugging each other in the streets and crying together and it is a total shock. They still are in a way. But on the other hand when you think that they are gathering together about 200,000 people marching in Oslo, having roses in their hands, it is beautiful, and it is a very strong feeling of unity. But when you think that those behind who have planned all these things, they always use symbolism. So the symbolism of the rose has many symbols. One of them is Labor Party. But so-called subrosa, which is a special kind of, how would I say it, under rose, a word they use which they use when they are doing covert operations.
Palmgren: Under the rose.
Dr. L-K: Under the rose. Especially with the Secret Services. And I froze when I heard about this, and I said, "Good Lord, 200 people under the rose, putting up their hand, and holding the rose, which is beautiful.
Palmgren: Absolutely, absolutely.
Dr. L-K: And they definitely did not know that the Secret Services have maybe something else in their mind when they were asked by a rose or they were given free roses or whatever.
Palmgren: This is all very symbolic, just as you point out.
Dr. L-K: Exactly.
Palmgren: This goes back to the British. It denotes secrecy, confidentiality, and it is also similar to the Chatham House Rule, we are talking about the Royal Institute of International Affairs. We are back to MI5, MI6, you know things like this right now. Being under the rose, the rose wars that happened over in Britain as well.
Dr. L-K: That is right.
Palmgren: And that is also why I believe a lot of these connections right away, Rauni, in the media are pointing towards Britain, right away. And England was drawn into this quicker than any other country in terms of beginning to look at the ADL who was also heavily infiltrated by MI5 and MI6 as well. Very, very interesting to me. Very interesting.
Dr. L-K: Well, also Hungarians have this subrose connection, which is dealing to conspiracy. And I don't think it was a coincidence that George Soros was here, and he is originally Hungarian. So again, maybe I am going too far. But it just struck me that, hey wait a minute, there is a connection, possibly, and there is also a connection with "subrosa" to the comet which they are predicting will come and hit the earth soon. Well personally I don't think any comet or astroid is doing that, but we can arrange for it like what Reagan said, we can arrange [borgatsul? unintelligible 4:32] when they were talking about Star Wars, and now it seems that since NASA has given officially warning, I read on the Internet to its employees about dates for disaster preparedness, telling them what dates they really can expect something, so they should have preparedness, you know water, batteries, and torches and whatever. And the date was 27 September, the first one, then it was 17th of October, then it was 5th of November, 23rd of November, and 21st of December. And I wonder how is it possible that NASA gives warnings by dates unless it is not himself arranging these things. If something falls from the skies, we can't tell the dates so exactly. So anyway people should be prepared. If nothing happens, good. If it does, be prepared.
Palmgren: Yes, absolutely. I am trying to keep all my thoughts in my head here as we go through this. There are just so many inconsistencies, so many things that we should highlight. Let's just talk a little bit more about when we are on the topic of symbolism then. July 22nd, the King David Hotel bombing was an attack carried out by the militant right wing Zionist, underground organization, Irgun, on the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on July 22, 1946. So we are talking about exactly 65 years later, Rauni, and there is more to this story obviously, because again, just as you said, the foreign minister Jonas Gahr Store was on Utoya the day before, July 21st, when you know there was a pro-Palestine rally being held there. And also on July 18th Norway was basically ready to recognize the Palestinian state. And there is another connection in terms of how some of the oil contracts or an oil fund I think was cut off to Israel. What do you think we are looking at there, is there any symbolism. You mentioned Mossad before, could this be some kind of retaliation? We can go back even to the Oslo accords, right Rauni, let's talk about that. The importance of that.
Dr. L-K: Well at least I say that , I notice that they always use symbolism, and they always use numbers. Number 22 is often used by the military. Often military intelligence, that means the secret services. You said number 21, that is 2 plus 1 is 3, that is a very, very number one symbol in my mind. So they always do things at certain times. Timing is extremely important, and this blast was about 15:30, 15:26, 15:20 -- there are different, you know, numbers given in the press.
Palmgren: ...Numbers are analyzed. Number of dead, yes.
Dr. L-K: But 15 is 5 plus one is 6 again, and 33 again, or if it is 2 plus 26 minutes after, so that too. They are using the numbers that have been associated with their own secret code. So that people who sort of know about these codes, they know. "Ah! this is an operation" for them. But of course a majority, I would say 99% of the people, don't know anything about these codes.
Palmgren: No, no, of course not. We detail there with another guest Richard Hoagland recently here about how the Sun entered Leo and astrological significance on that on the 22nd. We also talked there about the connection to September 11th, and again if we put this in hindsight or in perspective, I want to bring up, for instance, the Swedish social democratic politician Anna Lindh, who was murdered over here on, actually she died on September 11, 2003. She was actually stabbed on the 10th, the evening I think before. This very, very interesting character Mijailovic was basically stating, and this is up front, it is in the BBC, he was hearing voices in his head. He had nothing personal against Anna Lindh, he just couldn't stop hearing these voices. And he went out that day with a knife in his hand feeling threatened, and basically when he saw her, he started stabbing her, basically. Mind-control. Obviously mind control.
Dr. L-K: Absolutely. A total mind-controlled patsy.
Palmgren: She was very, very much obviously, what I want to connect this with, very much a supporter of the Palestinian state as well. She was highly critical of Israel. She was destined I think to rise to the position of becoming Prime Minister in Sweden. And she was taken out. That is just the way it is.
Dr. L-K: That's right. That's right. Add numbers again so the 22nd of July now, so 2, 2, 7, what is that, that is 11. And this year is the 11. So it is 11-11. It is very interesting.
Palmgren: It is all very interesting.
Dr. L-K: They always use the numbers first and the codes and the colors. So there is much, much, more than people know about it. And it was interesting that I just read on the Internet, that the Russian FSB , Federal Security Service, which was KGB, has been stating that Nels Stoltenberg, the Norwegian Prime Minister, two days (number 2 code), they put in an urgent call to Putin, begging Russia's leader to help stop the events that left almost a hundred innocent civilians dead. Now if this is true, that is big news. Because then he knew. But he couldn't do anything, because like the Army said, when I was saying to somebody he could have alerted the Army and then evacuated the island, but probably did not know about details. And the Army Chief, General [Sverre] Diesen who is no more chief, but he went on pension some time ago, so he said the Army could not have done anything or prevented anything. And again if you think that the attack against the government buildings, if you think it came from the skies, well of course you can't predict, especially when you don't have any planes here yourself. But this article [Editor's Note: Norway Premier “Begged” Putin To Stop Massacre Planned By “Elites”] which was printed in the Europeantimes.net and I don't know the real background. It says something "whatdoesitmean.com." It has given this information, what FSB has been saying, so they say that the FSB further reports that this false flag attack on Norway was a clear textbook example of an Operation Northwoods designed and prepared by U.S. military experts. And Operation Northwoods was a series of false flag proposals that originated within the United States goverrnment in 1962. The proposals called for the CIA or other operatives to commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere and this is important "in order to influence public opinion and had been used in many Western governments over the past five decades." They had been used in Turkey and Indonesia. They had been used all over. And then it continues:

FSB experts note in this report that the false-flag attacks on Norway further mirror those of Oklahoma City and Port Arthur in: 1.) A large vehicle holding a powerful fertilizer bomb was able to gain undetected entrance to a protected government centre; 2.) The armed police response to an ongoing massacre of civilians was delayed for reasons still not explained; 3.) A lone suspect has been indentified as the sole perpetrator of the attacks contrary to witness statements that more people were involved; 4.) The lone suspect is denied the right to an open hearing before the public."
This report also notes that within hours of these attacks occurring, a “virtual flood” of information relating to the suspected mastermind of this massacre was released indentifying him as a “blond-haired blue-eyed” Norwegian...

et cetera. I mean this, you know, makes you sort of breath deeply.
Palmgren: Yes, yes, I have my questions about whatdoesitmean.com. I am trying to find the call there, on the source article, the urgent call to Putin there, discussing the energy, the Russian-Norwegian energy corporation that they were discussing at this point. I am going to link that story up so that people can read that story for themselves and take a look at some of those links there as well.
Dr. L-K: At the end it says that two of the reasons behind this attack, this FSB report states it is a desperate attempt by British European Union and American banking interests to force Norway into their union. The European Union, which Norway is not a member, in order to loot their sovereign wealth fund of its estimated $1.5 trillion in wealth, which without the entire Western Economy may collapse. Important note, the FSB says, is that what is being done to Norway has already been done to Libya in what is now called the financial heist of the century. These same elites launched an unprovoked attack upon this North Africa nation and promptly looted it of nearly a 150 billion dollars of its sovereign wealth fund in order to sustain their crumbling empire. That is pretty heavy.
Palmgren: It reads right. I'll put it that way. Obviously.
Dr. L-K: Exactly.
Palmgren: It reads right in the sense that it is understandable why the powers that be would be interested at this point to get Norway into the European Union and transfer more of their funds obviously into the coffers of the failing empire that they are trying to build right now. But still though there must be an interface here between the threats, if you will then, from let us take this into account the suggestion that this is the international community if you wil on one level threatening Norway. "Look at what we can do, basically," say. But there must be a communication at some point suggesting "We were behind this, and if you don't comply, it is going to happen again." Would this be taken to Stoltenberg you think or anyone else within Norway.
Dr. L-K: I have no idea, but I am sure these kinds of actions are going to increase. Because so far nobody has been taken for September 11th except patsies of course. Patsies, but those who are behind, they are never taken. So why wouldn't they continue, because they are never taken. There are patsies out there. Patsies are condemned, but not those who plan. And if you think, when I was in this nonlethal weapons conference a couple of years ago in Germany, Etlinger [spelling? 16:11], when this American colonel demonstrated by saying, "Everybody says, `Who are they, and who are they who are doing all these things?'" So he drew a square with his finger into the air, and he said in the middle of the square there is a symbol of a New World Order. On the side there is the symbol of the Illuminati with the Star of David, and on the other side there is CIA, FBI, and British Intelligence. "They" are they. So how do you stop atrocities which definitely are done in the whole world by the secret services? I mean you can't stop them unless there is a total change in the whole world, and maybe the change comes through tremendous catastrophes, that all our normal systems will collapse, and then of course the secret service systems will also collapse. But that could be arranged. I mean maybe that happens this fall or next year or whatever. But something is being planned which is very, very big. And of course those who survive, they have changed their attitude like the people in Norway have now changed their attitude, and there is a lot of love going around, which is very great, understanding, love and compassion towards other people. This did not exist before.
Palmgren: You pointed out an interesting thing in terms of his motive is to, if we look at what he says and the official version, the manifesto, etc. his attitude towards multiculturalism and so forth as well, if he is the brilliant strategist that he is, he must have understood that of course, that these victims, the people he killed, are going to be turned into martyrs for the cause. It will be turned into a political agenda. They will be used politically now. And as you pointed out Rauni, the Labor Party now has had a tremendous spike in support, and people who were on the fence about this before has now rallied behind them, and it has given even more energy in the opposite direction than he wanted to. If he was smart, he should have seen that coming, right?
Dr. L-K: I don't think he planned this. I said he is mind-controlled and he does what the planners want. And the planners wanted this result. The Labor Party had a 28.9% before this, and now it has 38.7%, so over 10% in just a few days.
Palmgren: It is incredible.
Dr. L-K: So I don't think he planned anything. He is a patsy, he is a robot, and he does exactly as he is being told straight into his brain.
Palmgren: OK, so if that is the case, that means that those who would like to see that, this particular government to remain in office in Norway, are they to be blamed? Are they the one behind it?
Dr. L-K: I would not blame anybody because I do not know. But those who planned it, they should be blamed. They have different agendas, you know like taking away the weapons, and taking away the privacy of people, maybe microchipping all that. They have very different agendas. And this probably is one of them. To keep the Labor Party on stage, because it was going down. And the popularity of Prime Minister Stoltenberg was going down. Now it is up to the highest 92%.
Palmgren: Yes.
Dr. L-K: So, you know, something has happened.
Palmgren: Yes.
Dr. L-K: It must be in the agenda, that this is a way, how you can change people's attitudes and minds. And of course it works. It is psychological warfare at the same time.
Palmgren: That's right, and again I also see playing into this the furtherance of, basically stifling criticism of things, that basically whatever he wrote about in the Manifesto that he was for or against, is going to be used in the 180 degree opposite direction.
Dr. L-K: Oh, absolutely.
Palmgren: So if he is critical of the European Union, "Yay! Let's go European Union!" You know. If he is against multi-culturalism, "Yay! Let's go multiculturalism!" You see what I mean? An 180 degree emotional turn that is happening right now, and I found that interesting because I question whether he even wrote the manifesto at all. People are looking at this now as the Bible, into the psyche if you will of this man. I mean he borrowed parts from the Unibomber, we know that. He was another LSD-mind-controlled individual, basically, but how do we know that he wrote the manifesto?
Dr. L-K: I don't think he did. But we will never find out until the whole thing breaks down. When the whole scenario some day is going to come out. Like, truth always comes out at the end, but it might take years. I don't think that it comes out very soon. On the political level it will take decades before things come out. I mean offiically September 11th is still in the official version. And it was 2001. So you know a lot of people know that the official version is false. But still the official version still stands.
Palmgren: Well history and truth is not the same thing, obviously.
Dr. L-K: Yes, right. It depends on who reads it.
Palmgren: And it depends on who writes it.
Dr.L-K: Right.
Palmgren: He seemed like he was military-trained. Some people reported about him going over and in very cold, very calm, I mean think about that. 69 people then I think I am told he shot on the island. Walking around, some of them he walked over, and apparently shot them twice in the back. Just moved on to the next person, and in some regards called them towards him, because he was in his police uniform. "Hey come here because I am here to help you." That is not a normal psyche. It has been claimed he was taking some kind of drug, there were some other things involved here as well. Still, that is not a normal psyche, right Rauni?.
Dr. L-K: It is a mind-controlled psyche, and drugs is always a camouflage. Always they say that somebody was on psychiatric drugs, and then that gives an explanation why they behave the way they do. But one word, mind-control. It explains the whole thing. Everything what he did, everything what he said, how he behaved and how he behaves now. His own father, according to papers, they have not met in 16 years, is a diplomat living abroad, had said that if he had only shot himself instead of all the others, and the mother is in hiding now.
Palmgren: Yes, well understandably. His dad pointed out in that regard something interesting, if you will, Rauni,because many of the other shooters, specifically school shooters and others as well, including the ones in Finland, they ended up shooting themselves afterwards.
Dr. L-K: That is Delta programming. This guy did not have Delta programming, because I told you, they need him. They need him to confess that he did the government buildings, and he has done that officially, and now they have postponed the real court case until next year.
Palmgren: Isn't that incredible. The media is going to milk this thing now.
Dr. L-K: Exactly. And traumatize the Norwegian people more and more and more.
Palmgren: And the rest of the European people too. Here in Sweden and other countries as well, it is just trickling on down, but they --
Dr. L-K: It is psychological warfare. And it has an effect. I mean, they know what they are doing. It is to scare, to make people just not feel safe. And so when they don't feel safe, they go to authorities to do something, do something, and OK, more and more surveillance, more and more restriction of your civil liberties. And they do not understand that this is the aim. They go into [unintelligilble-24:29] -- they fall into the trap which these who have planned all of this have made in the first place. And they always, always use the same scenario, because it works. Why would they change it? It works in every country. In every day. And people don't know and people don't understand, and people don't want to think that their own authorities could somehow not want to support them.
Palmgren: It is the most horrible thing ever, and if you admit this, your world will fall to pieces under your feet, basically, and yes, that is the way it is. This is the true root of terrorism, in that sense, of subjugating a people, a population. And it has been going on for thousands of years in different ways. Look at the history of religion. Look at how all of this has been to basically subjugate the people under the arm of the powers that be, basically. This is business as usual, as Jordan Maxwell would say.
Dr.L-K: That's right, but because we live in a global world it is the globalists that rule the world. And there are many, many people in Scandinavian countries who I think are pretty naive in many ways.
Palmgren: Oh, yes.
Dr. L-K: So we think that our government and our prime minister, or our president has something to say. Officially, yes, but unofficially they do as they are being told.
Palmgren: That's right, and the people -- sorry -- go ahead Rauni,
Dr. L-K: I just thought that was maybe why the secret police of Norway, the civilian police were silent for three days waiting for instructions, what to say.
Palmgren: Well exactly, and that goes back to the point that I was making earlier about Scandinavian culture. It is a very, very subjugated attitude, waiting for the authorities to pre-approve things before we open our mouths.
Dr. L-K: Right
Palmgren: And this goes down to the level of police as well. It is very hesitant, very, very hush, hush, putting the lid on right away. Why do they put this guy in a closed hearing? I understand the emotional trauma of this situation. I do understand that. But at the same time if this society is being heralded as an open society, isn't this in these kinds of situations where it is especially important to open it up -- and air out the dirty laundry, if you know what I mean Rauni, so everybody can try to understand why this happened, by putting the lid on, hushing this up, and silence it further, that is not going to help. They are going to put this guy four weeks in isolation now. What is going to happen during that time?

Dr. L-K: Well I am sure that they are doing programming or reprogramming, you know, doing whatever, with him. And the thing why they don't want the open hearing, like they said, was that because in the manifesto, he has threatened that he is going to in the court cases, he is going to reveal everything, and he is going to put further his message, etc. So they stopped that. Of course that is not the cause. The cause is that he might say something, the people will wake up. Of course.
Palmgren: What will that be, do you think? Would wake up?
Dr. L-K: Maybe he could, sometimes they remember. He could remember his programming. Sometimes they break. The programming may break.
Palmgren: Sure
Dr. L-K: And then he may say something which he shouldn't have said to the general public, or something. That must be the real reason. The public must not know the real things that are happening, because it is like the code of silence. When we talked about symbolism and roses, I just heard about the Greek god who was so-called god of silence. And he was represented as a naked youth. Finger over his mouth, and a hieroglyph of a child is youth. So you know again, symbolism. Code of silence, and this is used by the secret services. I mean it is so your hair stands up when you start digging into this, it is like going into the, what do you call it, the books that were written by --
Palmgren: What book are you thinking about?
Dr. L-K: About Dan, what is his name?
Palmgren: Dan Brown?
Dr. L-K: Yes. He puts symbolism all over. On statues and on names or whatever. And this is what they are using. I mean, if a Greek god is a god of silence and secrecy, which was represented as naked youth, and the secret services use that. So there is something occult there again. But maybe that goes too far. It is like Don Brown, digging, digging into more and more, you find out more and more.
Palmgren: Brown obviously has borrowed a lot of material from other authors that are not into fiction out there. And we know that now, we have had other guests on the program like Christopher Knight, a Freemason as well, and he understands some of the symbolism that is involved in this and timing as well.
Dr. L-K: Timing is everything, and who benefits. When you answer those two questions in any terror attacks, then you know. Why was timing now? Well, first of all it is summer, and people are on vacation. So that is the excuse for why police and a helicopter could not go. Because the two pilots were on vacation. And also people because they are on vacation or the time of the office hours was just about over. And in September there are elections and this thing does have a tremendous effect on the elections. And then, who benefits? That is the question, who is behind it?
Palmgren: Bohemian Grove, apparently ongoing. People I think have mentioned the cremation of care festivities if you will happened on July 22nd. Have you heard about that?
Dr. L-K: No, no, I haven't. July 27th is an important date.
Palmgren: 22nd, yes?
Dr. L-K: July 22nd, yes. I mean, like I said it is 11 now this year. 2 plus 2 plus 7 is, you know, [11].
Palmgren: What do you think of this strange reporting that a lot of the youth on the island, because I was thinking about the symbolism again, that were taking off their clothes. There were piles of their clothes lying around, and obviously this was because they wanted to swim away from the island, but I am just questioning tof how you reason at that point, "OK, I am going to jump in the water because I have a gunman chasing me, but I am going to take off my clothes first?"
Dr. L-K: Well I did see some semi-naked youths, pictures of them, they were hiding somewhere. Also I heard that some people were almost drowning, because their clothes were so heavy, in the water, so that makes sense that you would take away, you know, and jump-in. I don't think there is anything else behind it. I don't know, I don't know. But this god of silence talks about naked youth.
Palmgren: Well exactly. That is what is so interesting.
Dr. L-K: Code of silence and secrecy. So I don't know if there is a connection, but it is strange.
Palmgren: It is strange, and there are a few other festivities, if you will, that is connected with this as well. I will try this. We have another one of our guests, Josh Reeves, did a really good symbolism and interpretation of some of these things here as well and pointed towards the fact that there is another Roman festivity going on. I am going to try to find that later. If nothing else, I will link that up so people can take a look for themselves. And it is another one of these Lucretia or something else. [sp? Festival of Lupercalia? 32:17] . I will find it later, but it is interesting to me. How detailed, Rauni, is the art of mind control? Do you think that every step that this guy made was planned by somebody, or are we talking about someone who has suggested a few ideas to him, but made him very, very convinced of it? So on one level he actually just acted out these things seemingly on his own, and maybe made certain decisions on it himself. What do you think?
Dr. L-K: I think it can be done extremely, extremely in detail. Of course it depends. What kind of programming you are. There are different programs for different people, but he was early entry programmed to kill, and programmed for hate. And it can be extremely, extremely detailed. But, sometimes they break. Sometimes they do break, and that can disrupt their programming. And that is the danger. Those who program, that if they disrupt, something happens unexpected. Whatever, so he falls -- it is like hypnosis. So he falls off from the hypnosis, and then things may go very, very wrong. But usually they don't have anything to say. They are just biological robots. And they do it tank-tank-tank, and that's it. Like Sirhan, Sirhan who was convicted of Robert Kennedy's murder, he said "Did I do it?" Did I do it?" See, he was programmed, and I have read about his programming, and he talked to who was programming him, and "Kill Kennedy, Kill Kennedy" you know like that, and then when it happened he said, "Did I do it?" So he got out of the programming, he couldn't understand that he had killed. So it is a very, very scary technology when it is misused. It could be used positively. That "Blah! blah! blah!" The whole world love everybody, who world love each other, but of course it is not, because it is a weapon against --
Palmgren: Exactly, at the end of the day they shouldn't mess around with those kinds of things. They should let people live their own lives, and come to the conclusion that they want to, and live their lives accordingly, and this is again about full spectrum dominance, as it is called, controlling all the aspects of human life. And they are doing it. They are shaping and molding society and the way things are going to turn basically on this planet with the aid of these drones, these programmed individuals, basically. And the question here is as well is how -- again I go back to the manifesto and yes, of course we don't know if it is written by him, but if we look at it in terms of the detail at the end of this thing, as a kind of diary, if you will, almost, what he did, how he did it, how he went about with the chemicals, what he did that day, or he went out and ate at this restaurant, it is pretty interesting because it almost reads like a, how shall I put this, someone has told him, OK, detail everything that you do, write it down so that we have that for the record later.
Dr. L-K: Exactly. They have dictated every word that he puts into it. You know he writes and he writes and he writes. In a way it could be called automatic writing. When you do automatic writing, some other source affects you. Whether it is a good one, like a spirit of some other dimension, or whether it is like a CIA agent who is doing mind-control on you. So it is an outside force that is forcing you to write. And you have no idea what you write. But the text comes, and then you read it, and it does not make very much sense. You can get prescriptions or you know the future or what is happening or next year or whenever. You can ask questions and you can get answers and of course you can see if it is fit. If it is true. But is is absolutely an outside force, and of course in medicine we say it is your subconscious writing. I am doing automatic writing, and I do know it is not my subconscious because I don't know those things. My subconscious does not know those things, but sometimes I get it. But to the main thing is that you are under the influence of an outside force. And if it is a good force, you can use it for healing, and if it is a negative one, you use it for mind control. Or they use it.
Palmgren: Yes. Apparently his farm that he was on as well had been used for some interesting things previously, owned by, there was apparently marijuana grown at the farm -- it had been used by different groups. Or if it is just the one, I still need to confirm this but it was apparently used by other things, if I put it that way before, for potentially the forces behind the control of society basically, and they have been using this farm for a number of different agendas, basically and this just seems to be the last one, if I put it that way. Have you heard that?
Dr. L-K: The police went there after he was arrested and they were doing explosions. And it came into the newspapers that some neighbors had complained because they got really frightened and they had not been informed, that the police were doing the explosions. But the police stated in the press that they have informed the neighbors. Well I don't think a lady who is a neighbor will go to the Norwegian press and say that they did not inform us if they really would have. So again this information from the police [is suspect].
Palmgren: Yes. Do you know if it is true if the FSK, the Forsvarets Spesialkommando, Special Forces of Norway, is close to this area of Rena where he was staying as well.
Dr. L-K: I don't know. I don't know, no.
Palmgren: OK. It was just a hint that was picked up in an article I read recently, and I have not been able to confirm that, or find more info about that, but I wanted to ask if you knew.
Dr. L-K: But I remember from the Finnish shooting, you know I don't think it was a conincidence that our police special forces were doing an exercise ten minutes from the shooting place. I mean, it can't be a coincidence.
Palmgren: No.
Dr. L-K: So, you know, the police is always involved.
Palmgren: That is very, very interesting, this whole story, and again, what do you think about the media beginning to analyze the story and try to break it down. I think I have never ever seen such an explosion in the media of trying to deconstruct this, trying to analyze these things. And again I go back to that idea that it is a kind of Gordian Knot, that if you look at the whole situation, it is like a massive PSYOP that is affecting everybody and everything, including obviously the media who is putting out all of this information all the time. To me it implies that it can't just be the acts of one mad man, if you will. But if it is, it is quite astonishing.
Dr. L-K: No, it is not an act of one mad man, it is a brilliant operation involving the powers that be. The powers that rule this world. And they are not governments as such. They are behind the scenes and they force the governments to do what they do. According to this FSB report, Stoltenberg first learned of this plot against his country this past Wednesday. [It] says "This happened on Friday, after reading a top secret report prepared for him by the Norwegian Intelligence Service on the late March computer attack against Norway's top military leader which showed them involved in a conspiracy with Britain's MI5 security service, and the United States Central Intelligence (CIA) to launch a two-phased attack on Norway modeled after false flag operations both in Australia and America in the mid-1990's." Now that would show that the top politicians have really nothing to say. They can't stop this, even if they tried. So there are other people that rule the country. And they do not rule it for the benefit of the people. They want to diminish like the UN Agenda 21 stated if I remember correctly that 85% of the population of the earth has to be eliminated. 85%! And they are doing it all the time. All the time, all the time, in different ways. So for me this is not a positive evolvement and development of the human race. And they do say that we are too many. You know, there is overpopulation. I would say that if we all would become vegetarian, and I am not, I like a good beef. But if we all would be vegetarians, there would be enough food for the whole world. It is true. And why are they now having terrible troubles with dryness in the African Horne. Because I heard from a previous high politician in Norway that already in 79 both U.S. and Russia were sitting together and thinking of the future of planet earth, and they decided that Africa as a continent has to go first in their depopulation program.
Palmgren: Well, they sure have been running that program for a long time, already, haven't they.
Dr. L-K: Exactly. Exactly. And that is why no one cared about Luanda, for instance, when a million people died, because Luanda does not have oil or minerals or whatever, and immediately when there is oil in any country, that is when America comes in. And the next thing I suppose is Iran. They already have warships there I was told. American warships. So if something happens, a false flag operation in the States, so then of course they blame Al Qaeda or Iran or whatever, and all hell breaks loose.
Palmgren: You know it is good you bring that up as well because everybody of all races across the planet are being targeted. Some have been targeted for a longer time, and I believe that the most recent one now that you alluded to are the white terrorists. They are the next ones. Look out for the blond, the blue-eyed. And symbolically, what better place to begin than up in Northern Europe, here, Norway or even Sweden, in that sense.
Dr. L-K: Right.
Palmgren: That is just the latest incarnation of the terror that has been happening against everybody, so more right wing people out there in a sense. It has been happening around the world, and everybody has been targeted. Some people say this is just to target the right wing, but I think that as soon as we fall into the idea of left wing or right wing, and try to deconstruct what is happening in the world according to this political paradigm, we are losing the plot, because it stretches beyond that, and these two different factions of war on left and war on right have just been used to further polarize people, but if you try to apply that line of thinking I believe in this case and many others as well it is not going to make sense. It is going to be totally illogical, which it is too, because if you look at the manifesto and try to break down, wait a minute, is he right wing or left wing, I am confused, you know, it doesn't make sense.
Dr. L-K: And it doesn't matter what somebody is who is doing a terror actions. It doesn't matter what it is, if it is a Muslim or a Norwegian or a Finn, or whoever, they are doing what they are doing and it doesn't matter what their background is. The deed, what they are doing, the consequences of what they have done, that is what matters. Not their background.
Palmgren: Of course. And of course how this is going to be used by the powers that be --
Dr. L-K: Exactly, exactly.
Palmgren: I think you have multiple layers of this as well, Rauni. You have on one level you have the universalists, the globalists, the Fabians at the top if you will who are having their agenda on how to play this, and then further down on another level down to the local political parties, if you will, are going to use this in a favorable manner for themselves in one way or another. Everybody is going to jump on this, you know they are circling this like [buzzards on] a corpse in that sense, trying to take advantage of picking the bones of this thing. It is horrible to see it as well at the same time.
Dr. L-K: That's right. Everyone picks their raisins out of the bread. But one thing that I do hope will have an enduring effect, and I think it will, at least for some time, that people are more and more feeling united. More and more feeling that this should not happen, and we shoud be closer to each other. Actually I should would say love is the key. But it is very, very hard to get that through. But you do get that through, through pain. And I am afraid that we have to through pain to learn these basic things of loving each other and thinking of the good things that we can do to each other, and how we can help other nations who are not so further advanced as we are technically. They may be spiritually much more advanced than we are, but the good thing about these things is the feeling, what happens after war for instance, or what happened after the big tsunami, in Thailand a few years ago at Christmas. People really helped each other. They really thought of changing their attitudes, at least for some time, and this is what has happened in Norway. And I hope that we don't have to go through very, very painful experiences which I am afraid we will have to before we change. If we would change our energy into love and light and sending the good vibrations to this planet, that could prevent even any attack. I mean they could prevent that a gun can be shot, they can prevent that an asteroid hits us if we are united. And after all, we are seven billion people. So we could really do something if we start using our brain capacity. That is, our spirituality, our energy. But until now we don't do that. We fight against each other. Because of religion, because of politics. Because somebody is too rich and I am too poor, or whatever, and that has to change. It has to change that we are all human beings on this planet, and we all have a mission, and that mission is not destroying each other. It is to elevate our standard and the planet to a new dimension. And we do have a possibility to do that without destroying it. But it always hurts when the truth comes out. And then it has to come out for us. We are right there when it stops hurting.
Palmgren: I agree with you, these are all constructs that are designed to make us fight among ourselves instead of beginning to realize who the real enemy is and look at the top of the pyramid if you will, and maybe beyond that and realize who is pulling the strings basically in making all these things happen. And I remember talking with some Americans, and they said the vibe if you will was great after September 11th. Everybody was coming together and everybody had a feeling that hasn't been there before.
Dr. L-K: Same as that here in Norway now.
Palmgren: But then this is the sad thing about that, and I hope that this does not happen for Norway either, but eventually the frustration, fear, and anger and aggression sort of took over, and I mean look at the way that society has transformed in the United States and across the world after September 11th and the paranoid approach that society has now against everything. And now we have to go through these radiated body scanners just because of all of this thing that apparently happened on September 11th. Right?
Dr. L-K: Right.
Palmgren: Now everybody is being treated like a criminal until we are being proven innocent, basically, and that is not the right way to go.
Dr. L-K: Absolutely not. Absolutely. And thank God there are some change coming, because some States in the United States are making it illegal to body scan, and at least to grope their sexual organs when you go through the airports. And now the employees are getting cancer. Because they stay there all day and they get the side radiation, of course. And the radiation is so bad in the TSA boxes that the Los Alamos research has shown that your DNA starts bubbling with those. Your DNA bubbles yourself. And they haven't caught a single terroist with this system.
Palmgren: No --
Dr. L-K: So, so--
Palmgren: Sorry Rauni, it was shown by a German TV program that did a test of this, and it failed. The guy actually managed to hid a pistol I think somewhere on his body too, so it doesn't even work.
Dr. L-K: No, it doesn't work, and power explosives don't seem to come out of there either. So this is just harrassment. It is money for the guy who owns this system who was a toll free agent of the homeland security, Michael Chertoff, or something.
Palmgren: Chertoff. That's right. Chertoff Security.
Dr. L-K: $150,000 apiece, and if they would use the dogs to sniff people for instance, so they got only $8,000 apiece, then these guys wouldn't get all the money and they couldn't for instance sterilize people. Because it causes cancer. If it causes cancer in the employees who get the side radiation, think what it causes in the people who have to go through. And the humiliation that they have done. [51:23]
Palmgren: Yes, yes.
Dr. L-K: They took a breast implant, plastic from a stewardess because she had had a cancer operation, and she said "Well this is just -- have had cancer." No, they took it away. They took away a plastic urine thing from a man who had had prostate cancer and they broke it. So the piss went all over him. They forced a 95 year old woman who was sitting in a wheel chair and had diapers to take away the diaper, and she did not have an extra one. They humiliate people, and that is of course orders. That is what we are coming to, this kind of Nazi society. And this thing that, oh, everybody should be micro-chipped and everybody should be surveilled. Everybody's telephone and PC's and emails are screened -- everybody! by the supercomputers. Now this is not a society of high spirituality.
Palmgren: No.
Dr. L-K: This is going low, low, low.
Palmgren: Yes.
Dr. L-K: And that has to break. And it only breaks through catastrophes, man-made.
Palmgren: This is the "in" Nazi, the "international socialists" who are running this now. Furthermore, when a weapons manufacturer like Lockheed Martin now wins the contract for seventy two million dollars to install body scanners around in the States, people have to begin to question that. I wonder why? Why a weapons manufacturer, these radiation --
Dr. L-K: Because radiation is a weapon. It is a weapon against a civilian population. And this way you can eliminate people when they have get the radiation which is so strong that it causes cancer and other illnesses. It is a weapon, so that is why a weapon factory will get the contract. Simple.
Palmgren: Yes. Unfortunately.
Dr. L-K: I know, Rauni. Why don't we, let's try to talk a little bit more here as we begin to run things up here for this time. There are still a lot of loose threads out there. A lot of unknown variables. I am sure that in hindsight we will look back and say, "Oh! I forgot to mention this" in this interview and program and there will be time to detail this, further on as well. Please if there is anyone out there listening and having more information about the case, please send it to us as well, because we are interested in trying to understand what has happened here. Now Rauni, do you feel that there is anything more you want to mention about how they will try to use this in the intermediary here Norway maybe or Scandinavia or Europe. How will -- what is the consequence here. Stoltenberg said "No, this won't not change Norwegian society," but of course it will, right?
Dr. L-K: Of course it will. It already has. It has changed the attitudes of people. But I think we have covered up quite a bit of the consequences or possible consequences, so I don't think I have any more to add. And I think actually this is very heavy for people to hear, especially those people who do not know of these things before. Those who have read about these things or are a little bit inside, they probably do not take it heavily, but those people who hear for the fist time that this could have been a false flag operation, they are shocked.
Palmgren: Yes.
Dr. L-K: So I think we have had enough, and I want to say that the most important thing we have to remember, man is a mind, not a body, like I always say, and when you die, you don't die, it is only your body that dies. You are an intelligent life being with feelings, with emotions, with intelligence, and you just get out of your body, so there is no death. Those who died in this terrible catastrophe, they are fine, there is nothing wrong with them, but it is very, very heavy on their family and friends. And they should be comforted by the thought that they have not lost their loved ones. They have lost their physical appearance. But them, they are alive, just as you and I. You are somewhere, in another country, and I am here. We don't even see each other. But we can communicate through the telephone, but we can also communicate telepathically. And that is what they should learn, and then they can have contact with their loved ones who are now on another frequency in another world.
Palmgren: Yes, absolutely. It is a good way to mention it. I just want to personally say as well I hope that no one is offended by any of this. People who are at that stage obviously should take a break in grief instead of wallowing in this information but I believe it is essential to be able to question these events when they happen. And as we know as well, Rauni, this is at the early stages of this that things are the most revealing details are put out there by eyewitnesses and so forth things that cannot be controlled by the government or the media, if you will, but it is essential to monitoring that. It is a tragedy, and that is the way it is, but I think that once people get over the shock and have given time to grief about this, the people wake up and realize who and why this is being done to you and the people around you. And to everybody on the planet, basically, because this is just the latest incarnation, as we said before Rauni, of things that have been going on for a long, long time.
Rauni: That's right, and the thing that comes out of this is that it unites people in a positive way, and that is what we should have, one united planet, but it has to be done positively and not with force like is trying to be done now.
Palmgren: Thank you very much for you time today, Rauni, we really appreciate it, and we thank you for your perspective, adding your expertise and your theories and ideas obviously about some of the things that have happened here as well. Please let us know if there is anything else you want us to mention here as well before we wrap things up at this time. Any of your book titles or any of your other work, Rauni?
Dr. L-K: I will let you know when my first book comes out in English. I am just writing it.
Palmgren: Sounds good. Thank you very much for your time.
Dr. L-K: Thank you, thank you Henrik.



[Editor's Note: The following are some interesting articles I uncovered on the Internet while checking some terms, places, and references used in the interview above that have relevance to the topics discussed]

2011-10-28 22. Juli. In July. Illuminati utpresser norske myndigheter? Illuminati blackmailed Norwegian authorities? by Tor Karlstad, [English Translation page], nyhetsspeilet.no.
2011-09-20 White Dragons in the war against Illuminata Fourth Reich by Thu Karlstad, [English Translation page], nyhetsspeilet.no.
2011-09-20 Stay behind - The secret government monster mafia by Hans Gaarder, [English Translation page], nyhetsspeilet.no.
2011-08-28 Aftenposten reveals false-flag Utøya? by Morten Kjelland, [English Translation page], nyhetsspeilet.no.
2011-08-26 Invisible man-chip by Thu Karlstad, [English Translation page], nyhetsspeilet.no.
2011-08-10 Oslo terror Illuminati Card by Tor Karlstad, [English Translation page], nyhetsspeilet.no.
2011-07-25 Are All Conservatives Potential Terrorists Now? by Tor Karlstad, [English Translation page], nyhetsspeilet.no.
2011-07-22 Terrorists bomb the Government? by Tor Karlstad, [English Translation page], nyhetsspeilet.no.
2011-07-04 Norway in Vaerkrig [Weather War], [English Translation page], nyhetsspeilet.no.
2011-05-04 Norway in the War for Baron Rothschild, [English Translation page], nyhetsspeilet.no.
2011-04-29 POLICE STATE - Criminals To Be Microchipped & Tracked By States (video), vodpod.com
2011-03-11 Ertresvaag third book in the NWO-trilogy, [English Translation page], nyhetsspeilet.no." The article provides a selective summary of Ertresvaag book "Norway: A brain-finance and power-controlled society?" (October 2011). Kapitlene om bank, finans og økonomi vektlegges mer enn de andre. The chapters on banking, finance and economics are emphasized more than the others. Sammendraget inneholder linker til relevante web-ressurser, og kan således fungere som et nyttig supplement til boken. The summary contains links to relevant web resources, and can thus serve as a useful supplement to the book."
2009-01-11 Politician reveals cynical power elite in Norway by Frank Aune, nyhetsspeilet.no [English Translation]
A Norwegian politician reveals the existence of extensive high-tech underground bases in Norway as a secret kept by means of lies and cynicism. These are intended only for the elite, leading politicians and specially selected people in a global catastrophe. The rest of the Norwegian population is left to die.
This maintains an active, Norwegian politician with a military background who has been vindicated with his identity. The person is confirmed to be true and we are quite sure that the source is just the Norwegian politician he claims to be. Because of the risk to life, he wishes not to disclose their names publicly.
The Norwegian politician said that massive underground bases being kept secret for the people by the government and leading politicians. These will be used by the power elite in Norway of a future disaster. All facilities have been under construction since 1983 and the last will be completed no later than 2011. The politician reveals about the underground bases is extremely shocking and suggests strongly that the government and leading politicians in Norway is a small cog in a big game controlled by the global power elite..."
2008-10-09 Increased corruption in Norway, nrk.no/nyheter/okonomi/




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The Cowpens Flag, one of many circular star patterns used by "American Whigs" (or "Patriots")